Obama's 95% Tax Illusion
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Why is the economy in a crisis?
The failed housing market is the main reason.
Why did the housing market fail?
Because it was falsely inflated by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae forcing banks to give out loans to people who couldn't afford them (banks had a quota to fill so they gave out sub-prime and ARMs and if they didn't meet that quota, Freddie or Fannie would SUE them!)
Who benefited the most from these companies?
Well, Barack Obama was the SECOND HIGHEST paid Senetor in the country by these companies. This is how he became so powerful and how he is running for president. We are in this mess b/c of people like him. Can you smell what Barack is cooking? I can. Bullsh**!
McCain isn't so hot either. I do think however, he would do less damage to this country if he were president. Most of his plans would get shot down by the Democratically-controlled congress, so hopefully the economy will fix itself, the way it should.
The failed housing market is the main reason.
Why did the housing market fail?
Because it was falsely inflated by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae forcing banks to give out loans to people who couldn't afford them (banks had a quota to fill so they gave out sub-prime and ARMs and if they didn't meet that quota, Freddie or Fannie would SUE them!)
Who benefited the most from these companies?
Well, Barack Obama was the SECOND HIGHEST paid Senetor in the country by these companies. This is how he became so powerful and how he is running for president. We are in this mess b/c of people like him. Can you smell what Barack is cooking? I can. Bullsh**!
McCain isn't so hot either. I do think however, he would do less damage to this country if he were president. Most of his plans would get shot down by the Democratically-controlled congress, so hopefully the economy will fix itself, the way it should.
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Scionetics
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From: S C I O N E T I C S
Originally Posted by Sciond
Originally Posted by senseiturtle
Originally Posted by Sciond
ok vote for McCain and see what you get....one of the Keating 5 perps....oh maybe you forgot about that.......
There have been extensive inquiries and investigations into the Keating 5 "incident", and McCain has been continually cleared of any and all wrongdoing. Just because you're accused, doesn't mean you're guilty. In fact, both political parties file frivolous lawsuits against the other candidate EVERY election cycle.
And not to counter with an attack, but isn't it odd that Obama was the #2 money recipient from FM/FM, over the course of his extremely limited senate tenure?
Obama WILL take us closer to socialism. I can only hope that the damage that he will do is limited in scope, and that we can get someone else in there quickly enough to fix it.
not every senate investigation is accurate or honest
The Reagan's ended up not liking John McCain, Barry Goldwater did not like John McCain...
I don't get what people see in him and I'm a native of AZ.
Most of the claims I've seen in this thread against Obama are claims made by Fox News, Limbaugh, etc....
I do know that the Whitehouse is now in line with what Obama was saying about Iraq 18 months ago. I do know that Obama is on the Congressional record as saying that we were facing a financial crisis because of the mortgage markets 18 months (or more) ago.
I used to like McCain. Then he stopped being the "Straight Talk Express" and started playing word games just to get elected.
Obama is carrying an enormous weight of responsibility in this election. Not only is the next President inheriting a disaster in economic, domestic and foreign affairs, he is a black American and represents gigantic hopes of so many of his race and those that see what Dr. King dreamt people would one day see, the content of a persons character.
If he is elected and gets it wrong, what does that do to the next black candidate?
What does it tell the world if the United States of America can finally put aside our prejudices and choose a black man as our leader? How will that rekindle the light that Reagan called the shining city on the hill?
Obama has more riding on this election that just his own ambitions.
I guess you can tell who I am voting for. All I would ask of any of you is to honestly give Obama a look before you lable or dismiss him based on information you get second hand or filtered through Fox News and the cast of liars and idiots that make up too much of conservative commentary today.
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Scionetics
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From: S C I O N E T I C S
Originally Posted by TheMerovingian
McCain isn't so hot either. I do think however, he would do less damage to this country if he were president. Most of his plans would get shot down by the Democratically-controlled congress, so hopefully the economy will fix itself, the way it should.
Your other information is also off the mark.
The economy cannot fix itself if it is not free to work as it is supposed to. The banking deregulation that Phil Graham (McCain's friend and advisor) pushed through (probably to capitalize on loopholes created during Clintons administration) is what caused runaway greed to drive us into the ditch. This trickle down philosophy doesn't work. It never worked. Anything that creates advantages for big business (banks and oil companies for instance) never works to advantage of middle class people (you and me for instance). Why? Because one critical component, morality, gets driven out of the decision making process by another, greed. People in the driver's seats of these big companies want to follow the course that drives up their stock price and bottom line. The only time they actually care about people (you and me for instance) is when they've driven their company into the ditch and need taxpayers (you and me for instance) to pull them out.
Want a clearer picture of McCain the man? Click Here
Please vote. Our Country needs us.
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Posts: 16
From: San Ramon, CA
Lol what is so wrong with socialism? Do you really hate poor people that much? Well I could imagine living in OC.
But quite frankly evolutionary theory says there will always be an overproduction of offspring, a constant struggle for survival, and limited resources. In other words the dichotomy between rich and poor isn't by chance. Those who try to mitigate them are labeled as "socialists" and "communists." I'm not saying turn this country into France of China or anything, but pure capitalism and free market don't always solve anything.
Quite frankly, it's a difference in the way you see the world.
And to the bulls*it ebaumsworld link. There are a plethora of stupid voters. There's two people to vote for and 300 million people in the country! What do you expect.
But quite frankly evolutionary theory says there will always be an overproduction of offspring, a constant struggle for survival, and limited resources. In other words the dichotomy between rich and poor isn't by chance. Those who try to mitigate them are labeled as "socialists" and "communists." I'm not saying turn this country into France of China or anything, but pure capitalism and free market don't always solve anything.
Quite frankly, it's a difference in the way you see the world.
And to the bulls*it ebaumsworld link. There are a plethora of stupid voters. There's two people to vote for and 300 million people in the country! What do you expect.
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From: Earth
Originally Posted by xdorkx
Socialism is not that bad? Come on Heathen...
First of all, the tax increase on the 'wealthy'.
The poor are employed by the Rich. The rich will have their taxes raised and be forced to lay off the poor. That is one problem in itself, the next is...free healthcare and college for those who can't afford it? every joe schmoe will go to college, and this will put our nation FURTHER into debt. Canada has free health care, know where most Canadians go for SERIOUS operations? They cross the border south and PAY for their medical treatment in the States.
Friends of mine who live in Canada say their system sucks, in fact, Canadians in some Provinces are pushing for more privatization. They have antiquated equipment, going back to the post-WW II days, which is used for everyday procedures and whatnot. Less populated areas have to have fund raisers in order to purchase MRI and CT scan equipment, as there is no free market to guide such decision making, or, for that matter, profits to justify such purchases. The government otherwise steps in and puts hospitals and clinics on long waiting lists for such equipment, when funds become available. Which is never.
Already, people in the STATES are heading over the southern border to get dental work done in Mexico since it can be done for a fraction of the price as what is available in the US and with similar quality (just do your homework before picking your DDS). Just like Canadians and Europeans flock to the US for their medical care, we’ll have to head to another country to get ours as well if the left has their way.
Hell, The beauty of the communist spectrum doctrine is that all people get to suffer equally. Of course, the political leadership will have their own plan because sometimes, some people are a little “more equal.”
Think about this:
In a free market, I have the option to pick the best plan for me, from a range of suppliers, at the price I wish to pay. As soon as you get government involved, there are mandates of what plans have to include, it increases prices and consolidates supply. That is bad for the consumers of health care.
Not only that, but the government would require taxes to fund such programs. Lets think about that word. It has two meanings which are very closely related. On one hand, it means a government forcibly taking money from an entity. At the same time, it means to place an undue burden on an activity which ultimately limits it. In fact, taxation reduces your economic freedom, placing an undue burden on your ability to prosper while a parasitic government leeches from you. Time and time again has shown that a reduction in tax rates will stimulate the economy and a production of more revenue. Even JFK knew that.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention. Know what the next step AFTER Socialism is? Communism.
-My 2 Cents
First of all, the tax increase on the 'wealthy'.
The poor are employed by the Rich. The rich will have their taxes raised and be forced to lay off the poor. That is one problem in itself, the next is...free healthcare and college for those who can't afford it? every joe schmoe will go to college, and this will put our nation FURTHER into debt. Canada has free health care, know where most Canadians go for SERIOUS operations? They cross the border south and PAY for their medical treatment in the States.
Friends of mine who live in Canada say their system sucks, in fact, Canadians in some Provinces are pushing for more privatization. They have antiquated equipment, going back to the post-WW II days, which is used for everyday procedures and whatnot. Less populated areas have to have fund raisers in order to purchase MRI and CT scan equipment, as there is no free market to guide such decision making, or, for that matter, profits to justify such purchases. The government otherwise steps in and puts hospitals and clinics on long waiting lists for such equipment, when funds become available. Which is never.
Already, people in the STATES are heading over the southern border to get dental work done in Mexico since it can be done for a fraction of the price as what is available in the US and with similar quality (just do your homework before picking your DDS). Just like Canadians and Europeans flock to the US for their medical care, we’ll have to head to another country to get ours as well if the left has their way.
Hell, The beauty of the communist spectrum doctrine is that all people get to suffer equally. Of course, the political leadership will have their own plan because sometimes, some people are a little “more equal.”
Think about this:
In a free market, I have the option to pick the best plan for me, from a range of suppliers, at the price I wish to pay. As soon as you get government involved, there are mandates of what plans have to include, it increases prices and consolidates supply. That is bad for the consumers of health care.
Not only that, but the government would require taxes to fund such programs. Lets think about that word. It has two meanings which are very closely related. On one hand, it means a government forcibly taking money from an entity. At the same time, it means to place an undue burden on an activity which ultimately limits it. In fact, taxation reduces your economic freedom, placing an undue burden on your ability to prosper while a parasitic government leeches from you. Time and time again has shown that a reduction in tax rates will stimulate the economy and a production of more revenue. Even JFK knew that.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention. Know what the next step AFTER Socialism is? Communism.
-My 2 Cents
After the fall of the USSR and the Iron Curtain, the world economy has moved away from state ownership which was agressively supported by the USA. But if we really look at the economy, especially over the past year in America, it seems more like socialism for the rich—where the profits go to capitalists in the good times, and then in the bad, the government comes to the rich peoples rescue, and taxpayers get stuck with the bill.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the countrys two gigantic—and heretofore private—mortgage holders. Uncle Sam is now the proud owner of almost half of all mortgages in the nation. Did you get that? The government owns one out of two mortgaged homes in the country—and all the extra debt too. They doubled the American national debt in one weekend. But it is not just the fact that the Treasury is putting the taxpayer on the hook for massive fallout from corporate greed, while giving domestic and foreign bond holders a trillion-dollar free ride.
It is not just the fact that the Federal Reserve Bank has swapped hundreds of billions of US treasuries for practically worthless junk subprime mortgage-backed securities with banks to try and keep them afloat.
It is not just the fact that the Federal Reserve itself provided the money for J.P. Morgan Chase to buy failing investment bank Bear Stearns either.
And it is not just the fact that for the first time since the Great Depression the government has created a whole host of other bailout facilities (taf, tslf, pdcf) to socialize the losses of non-bank financial institutions, or the fact that the government has become the insurer for all individual bank deposits up to $100,000.
Now a whole other host of industries are lining up for government lines of credit too: $50 billion for GM, Ford and Chrysler, billions more for the airline industry. Going forward we will see the line of billion-dollar handout-seekers stretching on into the distance.
Legendary investor Jim Rogers calls it “madness.” He believes there are now clear comparisons between America and Communist China, where it is common for big companies and banks to be state-owned or have state partnerships. http://www.cnbc.com/id/26603489
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Central Florida
First of all, this forum is not appropriate for this type of discussion simply because the majority of its members are young impressionable individuals who are more easily swayed with MISINFORMATION. But, since this type of thread is already here I will expand on it.
Someone mentioned socialism and us being headed there. Clearly the person who said this is living in a fantasy world since we are already there. As soon as the government took power of the financial institutions of this country we became socialistic. A government which controls all finance is by definition a socialistic regime.
As for the candidates, there is not the "right one" vs. the "wrong one" but rather the better of two evils. Politics has transformed into an institution of greed and corruption which feeds on the ignorance and passive nature of those it presides over. Government has NO intention of genuinely helping its people because there is no profit in it. The only thing government is focused on is giving the people just enough o keep them from revolting and overthrowing it. Money has always been the name of the game and the citizens have been lulled into a false sense of security. WAR is the way to make money which is why there hasn't been true peace sustained for any significant length of time.
Its funny how much money can be put into wars, billions of dollars and yet in the years preceding these wars the government is always "strapped for cash" and the citizens see it everyday. No new roads, crappy schools and the joke that is "freedom".
Let me close with this. To all Americans, there will be NO real change until people are willing to give their lives to free us from the strangle hold of a corrupt government...NONE. As long as people are more concerned about what brand clothes they can afford and who Madonna is dating, the poplation of this country will continue to be taken advantage of. Sadly, the conditioning of this countries populations has lasted for too long and such a change is unlikely to happen in the near future. So strap in and get ready to STRUGGLE no matter who is elected into office because we are all screwed.
Someone mentioned socialism and us being headed there. Clearly the person who said this is living in a fantasy world since we are already there. As soon as the government took power of the financial institutions of this country we became socialistic. A government which controls all finance is by definition a socialistic regime.
As for the candidates, there is not the "right one" vs. the "wrong one" but rather the better of two evils. Politics has transformed into an institution of greed and corruption which feeds on the ignorance and passive nature of those it presides over. Government has NO intention of genuinely helping its people because there is no profit in it. The only thing government is focused on is giving the people just enough o keep them from revolting and overthrowing it. Money has always been the name of the game and the citizens have been lulled into a false sense of security. WAR is the way to make money which is why there hasn't been true peace sustained for any significant length of time.
Its funny how much money can be put into wars, billions of dollars and yet in the years preceding these wars the government is always "strapped for cash" and the citizens see it everyday. No new roads, crappy schools and the joke that is "freedom".
Let me close with this. To all Americans, there will be NO real change until people are willing to give their lives to free us from the strangle hold of a corrupt government...NONE. As long as people are more concerned about what brand clothes they can afford and who Madonna is dating, the poplation of this country will continue to be taken advantage of. Sadly, the conditioning of this countries populations has lasted for too long and such a change is unlikely to happen in the near future. So strap in and get ready to STRUGGLE no matter who is elected into office because we are all screwed.
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Scionetics
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Posts: 3,394
From: S C I O N E T I C S
Not very uplifting but I get where you are coming from.
I think our problem is very basic. People un-plugged a long time ago and let Congress and business rewrite rules and laws.
The revolution doesn't have to be bloody, just supported.
Vote.
I think our problem is very basic. People un-plugged a long time ago and let Congress and business rewrite rules and laws.
The revolution doesn't have to be bloody, just supported.
Vote.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 456
From: Medford, Oregon
Warren Buffet supports higher taxes on the wealthy. Why? Because making the rich richer isn't going to stimulate the economy. That method has been proven time and time again to fail. The fact of the matter is that when the middle class is doing well economically, everyone else does better as well including the rich. However, when the rich are doing better economically, the middle class does not see any benefit.
For instance, did you know that Warren Buffet pays less in taxes than his secretary does? Check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
For instance, did you know that Warren Buffet pays less in taxes than his secretary does? Check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
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Scikotics
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 485
From: Germantown, MD
Ive posted on other govt related threads and stand behind Giovanni all the way. Here's a quote that gives me chills because of its power...
Immortal Technique: 4th Branch
...The fourth branch of the government, want us to settle
A bandana full of glittering, generality
Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?
Read about the history of the place that we live in
And stop letting corporate news tell lies to your children...
...Flow like the blood of Abraham through the Jews and the Arabs
Broken apart like a woman's heart, abused in a marriage
The brink of holy war, bottled up, like a miscarriage
Embedded correspondents don't tell the source of the tension
And they refuse to even mention, European intervention
Or the massacres in Jenin, the innocent screams
U.S. manufactured missles, and M-16's
Weapon contracts and corrupted American dreams
Media censorship, blocking out the video screens
A continent of oil kingdoms, bought for a bargain
Democracy is just a word, when the people are starvin'
The average citizen, made to be, blind to the reason
A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are freezin'
And the world doesn't believe that you fightin' for freedom
Cause you ____ed the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon
It's open season with the CIA, bugging my crib
Trapped in a ghetto region like a Palestinian kid
Where nobody gives a **** whether you die or you live...
...You don't give a **** about us, I can see through your facade
Like a fallen angel standing in the presence of God
btiches scared of the truth, when it looks at you hard...
...Martial law is coming soon to the hood, to kill you
While you hanging your flag out your project window...
...The fourth branch of the government AKA the media
Seems to now have a retirement plan for ex-military officials
As if their opinion was at all unbiased...
...And you know it's serious
When these same media outfits are spending millions of dollars on a PR campaign
To try to convince you they're fair and balanced
When they're some of the most ignorant, and racist people
Giving that type of mentality a safe haven
We act like we share in the spoils of war that they do
We die in wars, we don't get the contracts to make money off 'em afterwards!
We don't get weapons contracts
We don't get cheap labor for our companies
We are cheap labor
Turn off the news and read...
Immortal Technique: 4th Branch
...The fourth branch of the government, want us to settle
A bandana full of glittering, generality
Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?
Read about the history of the place that we live in
And stop letting corporate news tell lies to your children...
...Flow like the blood of Abraham through the Jews and the Arabs
Broken apart like a woman's heart, abused in a marriage
The brink of holy war, bottled up, like a miscarriage
Embedded correspondents don't tell the source of the tension
And they refuse to even mention, European intervention
Or the massacres in Jenin, the innocent screams
U.S. manufactured missles, and M-16's
Weapon contracts and corrupted American dreams
Media censorship, blocking out the video screens
A continent of oil kingdoms, bought for a bargain
Democracy is just a word, when the people are starvin'
The average citizen, made to be, blind to the reason
A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are freezin'
And the world doesn't believe that you fightin' for freedom
Cause you ____ed the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon
It's open season with the CIA, bugging my crib
Trapped in a ghetto region like a Palestinian kid
Where nobody gives a **** whether you die or you live...
...You don't give a **** about us, I can see through your facade
Like a fallen angel standing in the presence of God
btiches scared of the truth, when it looks at you hard...
...Martial law is coming soon to the hood, to kill you
While you hanging your flag out your project window...
...The fourth branch of the government AKA the media
Seems to now have a retirement plan for ex-military officials
As if their opinion was at all unbiased...
...And you know it's serious
When these same media outfits are spending millions of dollars on a PR campaign
To try to convince you they're fair and balanced
When they're some of the most ignorant, and racist people
Giving that type of mentality a safe haven
We act like we share in the spoils of war that they do
We die in wars, we don't get the contracts to make money off 'em afterwards!
We don't get weapons contracts
We don't get cheap labor for our companies
We are cheap labor
Turn off the news and read...
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 456
From: Medford, Oregon
Obama > McCain. Fact.
I almost hope that McCain gets elected just so I can laugh at all the dumbf*cks that voted for him when the United States economy gets even worse and our troops spend years more in Iraq and wiretapping becomes legal and education worsens and all our jobs go overseas. If you vote for McCain, that is what you are voting for. That's even the good news! If/when McCain dies, we'll be in even worse shape with Palin. 3 years from now Mexico will be putting up a border to keep Americans out.
I almost hope that McCain gets elected just so I can laugh at all the dumbf*cks that voted for him when the United States economy gets even worse and our troops spend years more in Iraq and wiretapping becomes legal and education worsens and all our jobs go overseas. If you vote for McCain, that is what you are voting for. That's even the good news! If/when McCain dies, we'll be in even worse shape with Palin. 3 years from now Mexico will be putting up a border to keep Americans out.
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Scionetics
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From: S C I O N E T I C S
Originally Posted by xFistsClenchedx
Obama > McCain. Fact.
I almost hope that McCain gets elected just so I can laugh at all the dumbf*cks that voted for him when the United States economy gets even worse and our troops spend years more in Iraq and wiretapping becomes legal and education worsens and all our jobs go overseas. If you vote for McCain, that is what you are voting for. That's even the good news! If/when McCain dies, we'll be in even worse shape with Palin. 3 years from now Mexico will be putting up a border to keep Americans out.
I almost hope that McCain gets elected just so I can laugh at all the dumbf*cks that voted for him when the United States economy gets even worse and our troops spend years more in Iraq and wiretapping becomes legal and education worsens and all our jobs go overseas. If you vote for McCain, that is what you are voting for. That's even the good news! If/when McCain dies, we'll be in even worse shape with Palin. 3 years from now Mexico will be putting up a border to keep Americans out.
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Team ScioNRG
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Posts: 1,066
From: New London, Connecticut
Personally i've seen all 3 Presidential Debates, I have even downloaded them. From what I've seen Obama is more qualified to turn this country around in the same manner Clinton did when he took over. McCain is alot like George W. Bush you can even see it when he trys to joke around like him. If this country wants change and im sure most of us do, then we have to give Obama a chance. Not only do I fear McCain getting sick or dying from a Health Condition at his age, but I fear that he will try so hard not to be Bush that he will end up being exactly like him. Maybe we should give Joe The Plumber a call and see what he says.
Obama for president, for change and for a better economy.
Obama for president, for change and for a better economy.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,766
From: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by KillaSpiceTSW
Personally i've seen all 3 Presidential Debates, I have even downloaded them. From what I've seen Obama is more qualified to turn this country around in the same manner Clinton did when he took over. McCain is alot like George W. Bush you can even see it when he trys to joke around like him. If this country wants change and im sure most of us do, then we have to give Obama a chance. Not only do I fear McCain getting sick or dying from a Health Condition at his age, but I fear that he will try so hard not to be Bush that he will end up being exactly like him. Maybe we should give Joe The Plumber a call and see what he says.
Obama for president, for change and for a better economy.
Obama for president, for change and for a better economy.
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Music City Scions
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,808
From: West TN - Land of twisty roads
Originally Posted by xdorkx
Originally Posted by KillaSpiceTSW
Personally i've seen all 3 Presidential Debates, I have even downloaded them. From what I've seen Obama is more qualified to turn this country around in the same manner Clinton did when he took over. McCain is alot like George W. Bush you can even see it when he trys to joke around like him. If this country wants change and im sure most of us do, then we have to give Obama a chance. Not only do I fear McCain getting sick or dying from a Health Condition at his age, but I fear that he will try so hard not to be Bush that he will end up being exactly like him. Maybe we should give Joe The Plumber a call and see what he says.
Obama for president, for change and for a better economy.
Obama for president, for change and for a better economy.
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Music City Scions
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11,808
From: West TN - Land of twisty roads
Originally Posted by KillaSpiceTSW
Personally i've seen all 3 Presidential Debates, I have even downloaded them. From what I've seen Obama is more qualified to turn this country around in the same manner Clinton did when he took over.
