Tomas

Got a reply (somewhat garbled):

...and this is the attached document:

http://tijil.org/Scion_xB2_OEM_glass_specs.pdf

I have again requested contact with a representative of either the technical or legal group at TMS:

I will try another route to corporate if this does not get a response from the correct level at TMS.

Tom

Josiah21TC

i really dont think this guy understands the point that you are trying to make with him and has provided proof twice now that they are not meeting state regualtions with the privacy glass. if NYS says it has to be 70% but yet they provide information that it only allows 24-25% they are way off. i mean to be honest with ya with the information i provided in one of my earlier posts that most clear glass registers at only 92%. to me even if they are misreading the information and trying to say that the privacy glass is only a 24-25% tint. if you take into consideration that the glass probably is already at 92% before the tint in glass it would still be more then a 30% tint legal for NYS. however from how i am reading it they are saying that it only allows 24% light to pass through the window which is a lot lower then 70% for NY and no way near legal per state regulations.

Tomas i appreciate your efforts in trying to find out from Toyota what the deal is. good luck and hope something better comes from Corporate if need be!

Tomas

Just talked on the 'phone with another person at TMS/Scion Corporate, and they have been in contact with their legal department on this issue.

They will be researching this and hope to get back to me on Monday with some much better information.

One of the open questions at this moment is if the wording of the NY VAT law I quoted above is still exactly as I quoted it, or if the wording has changed since the version I quoted. (The reason for that concern is the "composed of" wording in 375 (12-a) as I quoted it. With that wording it appears to apply to the window glass as supplied by Toyota instead of applying only to added tint film. In other states the laws generally apply specifically to tint film added, but if "composed of" is currently in the NY law, it could apply to the glass itself and create a problem.)

So, by Monday I expect to have some info direct from the horse's mouth, and I have already stuck a bug in their ear about providing the OP in this thread with a support letter on corporate letterhead stating the company's belief that their vehicles are in full compliance with NYS law. If they can provide that letter, it might be of tremendous help in court, responding to the infraction/fine.

Off now to find the actual current law from an OFFICIAL NYS source if I can.

Tom

dspeedy69

iTrader: (2)

I have 30% tint on my front windows, and they are a bit darker than factory tint.

Tomas

That makes sense, because the OEM glass in the front door lets through 74% of the light, and your tint only lets through 30% of that 74%, giving you 22% and the rear door is 24% so they should be really close, but the front door would be just a slight bit darker. (It also might be a slightly different color.)

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

[attach][/attach]
30% on front to match the rears...it's about as close as they could get it.

You CAN still see through it on a sunny day, so KY police don't hassle me about it.

Josiah21TC

must be nice to not be a New Yorker. that is exactly how my TC looks tint wise and i get stopped at least a few times every year. i got a 30% tint all around on mine and if i remember correct it actually came out to be around 20% when they did the test lol. way below the required 70% for the state lol.

Schmohey

Link to NYS Tinted Window

"This law also applies to the rear window unless the vehicle has outside rear-view mirrors on both sides. The mirrors must give the driver a full and clear view behind the vehicle.

If the vehicle is classified as a station wagon, sedan, hardtop, coupe, hatchback or convertible, the rear side windows must also allow at least seventy percent of light from the outside to pass through the window."


I'm a little confused with the above statement. Which one takes precedence over the other one?

Tomas

They BOTH apply: One refers to the rear window, the other to rear SIDE windows...

Tomas

I've had two phone conversations with Sean at Scion Corporate on this since my last post. Scion Legal is still looking into this and trying to determine what needs to be done.

We are still hoping for helpful responses from TMS/Scion.

I'll let you know if I have any further info from Scion.

Tom

Tomas

Just checked again w/ Sean @ Scion - still waiting on the lawyers for a reply... :o(

He will bug them again.

Tom

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Continuing to hope for a useful response from those folks. Your efforts are appreciated, please don't give it up !

Tomas

As of a few minutes ago, this is the tentative response from TMS/Scion:

The Scion legal folks are saying the problem is with states (NY in this case) mis-classifying the vehicle as a hatchback or station wagon rather than as it was legally submitted and accepted by the feds as an MPV. Officially, by law (federal) it is an MPV, and meets all requirements for MPVs in all 50 states.

The problem is NYS mis-classifying the vehicle as something other than what it was submitted as, and accepted as, per federal law.

Scion's legal folks hope to have a written response put together by some time next week.

(As usual, it takes considerable time for legal to ensure they have verified everything and to get approval for an official company reply.

ASIDE: Just to show how oddly some states list vehicles, I have a 1st gen xB, and for some purposes my state classifies it a TRUCK...



__________________

r2d2michael

have to look again but i think my xb2 says "wagon" not "MPV" here in gig harbor, Wa

Tomas

(My Washington State Registration say's my xB Classic is a Toyota Station Wagon. My emission tests have identified it randomly as SUV, TRUCK, and WAGON... I'm not impressed with the accuracy of any of that.)

This is not a truck:

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

I have been curious about the classification of the xb as well. My insurance currently calls it a "sport wagon".

0_o

Tomas

Even the factory sticker that was in the window of my 2005 xB when I bought it classed it as a "Small Wagon" in the required EPA statements...

Tomas

Hey, Schmohey!

Just got off the phone with Scion in Torrance, CA and ________ ___ there would like you to fax a copy of your registration to her: __ ___ ____

This will help TMS/Scion legal in getting it together for a written response to the way the vehicles are registered.

If you have a problem FAXing that to her, you can email it to me (redact or cover up your name, address, and other info you might be concerned with if you want). Just snap a pic that is more or less readable and I'll get it to her.

Sorry it's taking so long, but at least we are getting some action from the Mothership...

Take care,

Tom

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Way to go Tomas -- thanks !

Tomas

Just got a call from Timesha@Scion requesting I remove her direct contact info from my previous post. Done.

I was also told that Scion's full response to this public thread is that "Scions meet all NHTSA requirements" and that if the individual owner would like further assistance they should contact Scion themselves and Scion will respond to them.

I suggested that since there was more than one owner being stopped and ticketed by New York State for factory tint, providing a helpful public answer in this thread would potentially help many, and I was told again that individual owners need to contact Scion and they will respond individually.

Sorry, Schmohey, I've just been stonewalled. You are on your own.

Tom

Contact Info for Scion: Scion Representative Information or (866) 707-2466

P.S. I warned Scion they would probably not like this post.

T