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P&L 403whp/307wtq...Stock motor + Auto
On a dang Auto transmission.
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports
(Post 386521)
Introducing the P&L Motorsports BRZ/FRS Stg. 1 Turbo kit. Utilizing 10 years of Turbo Vehicle Tuning experience, multiple world records and class victories the P&L BRZ/FRZ turbo kit is the new Benchmark for BRZ/FRS performance.
Whether your a DragRacer, RoadRacer, or you just love tearing up the back country roads this kit is designed for you. Featuring the latest billet wheel turbocharger technology, unparalleled hand fabrication and ease of install, the P&L Turbo kit is the most complete turbo kit on the market. No cutting, no trimming or modifying, completely reversible back to stock kit! The P&L Motorsports BRZ/FRS Stg. 1 Turbo kit. Features: -P&L Spec Billet Wheel Precision Turbo -P&L Equal Length Exhaust manifold 304 ss Sch. 10 construction -V-band Inlet/Outlet (no need for gaskets) -TiaL 38mm MVS Wastegate -TiaL Q Blow off valve -P&L 3" Stainless Steel Downpipe (with adapter flange for stock overpipe) -Atmospheric wastegate dump tube (plumb back option available) -Fully "ceramic coated" exhaust components (silver or black) -P&L 550whp Bar and Plate unit -P&L Polished IC piping (custom colors avail) -Blow thru MAF -Choice of 500cc/700cc/900cc injectors -3 BAR Map Sensor (for proper logging) -Cold air intake -DEI Titanium turbo blanket -T-bolt clamps -4-ply couplers -Complete 25 page "do it yourself" installation manual 8hr install time -3-year no questions asked warranty on all P&L fabricated components Fitment: -All USDM/JDM 2013+ BRZ/FRS/FT86 Vehicles MSRP: Click here> http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15559 Options Include: Wastegate Plumb back option Custom color IC piping Black or Silver ceramic coating w/o injectors ECUTek Cable/ license/ basemap for startup Kit contents: http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...okitlayout.jpg **Injectors/map sensor/coating not pictured** but are included in the kit http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...g?t=1345239072 http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...g?t=1345239084 http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...g?t=1345239108 http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...g?t=1345239119 Dyno Results: P&L Turbo kit E-85 15psi http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...-e85-15psi.jpg P&L Turbo kit 93 oct 8psi http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...-final8psi.jpg Stock Auto BRZ vs P&L turbo kit E-85 15psi Auto BRZ http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...psivsstock.jpg Stock Auto BRZ vs P&L Turbokit 93 oct 8psi Auto BRZ http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/y...tockvs8psi.jpg Dyno Video: P&L MOTORSPORTS BRZ/FRS STG.1 TURBO KIT. - YouTube Thanks for looking! |
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Someone had commented on the compression being close to 12:1, not sure if accurate or not but that can't last long. I dunno, not sure how the FA20 compares to other Subaru motors. The Dynosty kit looks more appealing to me. It makes ~325hp, already so much for that car.
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I wonder how it would hold up on a road course with that kind of power.
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Originally Posted by lynks
(Post 4050374)
I wonder how it would hold up on a road course with that kind of power.
Nice kit though. |
This kit looks beast though but since no one really knows the limit of this block yet I would be concerned about how long it would last.
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Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050371)
Someone had commented on the compression being close to 12:1, not sure if accurate or not but that can't last long. I dunno, not sure how the FA20 compares to other Subaru motors. The Dynosty kit looks more appealing to me. It makes ~325hp, already so much for that car.
This isn't the highest whp dynoed. That would be 439whp by Accelerated Performance on E85. |
Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050384)
This kit looks beast though but since no one really knows the limit of this block yet I would be concerned about how long it would last.
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Not scared, concerned. I think that's everyone's first question with that much power on a stock motor. It could handle it but who knows.
Pushing it is one thing, blowing it is another. I'll let someone else blow their motor because it's cool to push it too far, get a boost spike or something like that and kill the motor. I think finding the limit is mostly the responsibility of the manufacturer. I mean almost 2x the hp seems more than enough, if you're going to spend that much $ for the turbo why not protect the investment some with building the motor. That's just what I was thinking. |
Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050562)
Not scared, concerned. I think that's everyone's first question with that much power on a stock motor. It could handle it but who knows.
Pushing it is one thing, blowing it is another. I'll let someone else blow their motor because it's cool to push it too far, get a boost spike or something like that and kill the motor. I think finding the limit is mostly the responsibility of the manufacturer. I mean almost 2x the hp seems more than enough, if you're going to spend that much $ for the turbo why not protect the investment some with building the motor. That's just what I was thinking. Yet, in order to find the limit, the limit has to be reached. No need to be concerned unless it's your vehicle and you don't have the funds for another motor :icon_mrgreen: But having a shop push it and then beat on it for you to give you a sense of longevity is ideal since that's their job. The manufacture is not in the business of providing the aftermarket with stress numbers. There isn't a manufacture on the planet that does what you just asked. 90% of NA cars that get boosted, are on stock motors I would bank on it. It is absolutely not necessary to build a motor just because you want to turbo it. You just don't go past the recommended power levels....which are found out through experience. Experience is the only way anything is accomplished. |
I wasn't saying it's necessary to build a motor just because it is turbo'd. I don't have turbo experience, my thoughts/questions only come from what I've read and seen from others experiences etc.
I'd rather do something mild and see others improve numbers then go from there. And that's why I was concerned: "No need to be concerned unless it's your vehicle and you don't have the funds for another motor," that's the last thing I would want to do to a new car. It might not be the manufacturers "job" to do it but it's in their best interest/integrity almost to give you an idea. Not "well here's a turbo for your car and now you're pushing 450 from 200, have fun." I've seen those that give recommendations etc like good up to 400 on stock motor or something like that. I see what you're saying, and you have some turbo experience. I suppose I'm just talking from a lack of experience but I wouldn't really be down for a kit that goes that high/awesome without at least some idea of capabilities. But I guess that also comes down to a good install as well. |
Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050574)
I wasn't saying it's necessary to build a motor just because it is turbo'd. I don't have turbo experience, my thoughts/questions only come from what I've read and seen from others experiences etc.
Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050574)
I'd rather do something mild and see others improve numbers then go from there. And that's why I was concerned: "No need to be concerned unless it's your vehicle and you don't have the funds for another motor," that's the last thing I would want to do to a new car.
That's what shop cars are for. They do the work for us, at their cost. Trickle down that R&D into the community to provide guidance and product awareness.
Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050574)
It might not be the manufacturers "job" to do it but it's in their best interest/integrity almost to give you an idea. Not "well here's a turbo for your car and now you're pushing 450 from 200, have fun." I've seen those that give recommendations etc like good up to 400 on stock motor or something like that.
When you say manufacture, are you referring to the car, or the turbo setups? I took it as you were referring to the car manufacture (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) and not the turbo manufacture. Because what you described is exactly what the turbo manufacture is doing. They are just now starting. They are relaying the data they are gathering and we are watching these things develop. They are still in R&D phase. Once they find the limits, then they will start making recommendations.
Originally Posted by trdscion
(Post 4050574)
I see what you're saying, and you have some turbo experience. I suppose I'm just talking from a lack of experience but I wouldn't really be down for a kit that goes that high/awesome without at least some idea of capabilities. But I guess that also comes down to a good install as well.
Keep in mind now. Power is from the amount of boost you run on the setup. Turbo setups are not "put on and bam 400whp". It's the amount of boost you comfortably want to run on it. We could both have the same exact car on stock motors, with the same exact kit, but you feel that 8psi is all you need and run 300whp and I feel 15psi is more for me and make 400+whp. The amount of power has nothing to do with the kit, besides the maximum power the turbo is rated for. Just because a turbo is rated at 700hp, doesn't mean you have to run 700hp on your car. Just that "should" the time ever come and you want to push up to 700hp...you won't need to change turbos. Vice versa...having a turbo rated for 350hp. If I want to eventually run 500hp, well...I'm going to be spending money on a new turbo since this one only goes to 350hp. |
Guess I should have included that I was referring to the turbo manufacturer, not the auto maker.
Definitely, I know that a 400hp kit doesn't have to be run at its highest boost/output. It's all preference. I think I was more getting at there is R&D involved especially for such a brand new platform like the FR-S/86/BRZ and they should give a baseline or starting point with some suggestions. Misunderstanding on both our parts.
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
(Post 4050581)
Keep in mind now. Power is from the amount of boost you run on the setup. Turbo setups are not "put on and bam 400whp". It's the amount of boost you comfortably want to run on it. We could both have the same exact car on stock motors, with the same exact kit, but you feel that 8psi is all you need and run 300whp and I feel 15psi is more for me and make 400+whp. The amount of power has nothing to do with the kit, besides the maximum power the turbo is rated for. Just because a turbo is rated at 700hp, doesn't mean you have to run 700hp on your car. Just that "should" the time ever come and you want to push up to 700hp...you won't need to change turbos. Vice versa...having a turbo rated for 350hp. If I want to eventually run 500hp, well...I'm going to be spending money on a new turbo since this one only goes to 350hp.
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Cool, glad we are on the same page now :)
I think it will be great to see these a few months down the road, still pushing 400+whp. I can't wait for PTuning to finish up their setup as well, cause I know their quality. And what they did with the tC, makes these other kits (no offense), look basic. |
Yup.
Yeah I mean the FR-S pushing 325hp+ is awesome. PTuning makes solid kits, lost of options. I can't wait to get my FR-S. |
nice - I want one :biggrin:
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"P&L 403whp/307wtq...Stock motor + Auto"
Sounds pretty simple when stated like that but it's really not that simple, cheap or easy. In order to actually make this work for a semi-reliable DD you better budget ~$15k and hope you can get e85 everywhere you ever go. Base Turbo Kit - $5500 Gauges - $500 e85 fuel system upgrades - $1000 Tune - $1200+ IPT/Level 10 trans build - $5000 |
Originally Posted by ScionFred
(Post 4050772)
"P&L 403whp/307wtq...Stock motor + Auto"
Sounds pretty simple when stated like that but it's really not that simple, cheap or easy. In order to actually make this work for a semi-reliable DD you better budget ~$15k and hope you can get e85 everywhere you ever go. Base Turbo Kit - $5500 Gauges - $500 e85 fuel system upgrades - $1000 Tune - $1200+ IPT/Level 10 trans build - $5000 Most turbo setups are $5k (no brainer) Gauges (varying types can be under $300 and as high as $1000+) e85 upgrades (this car and all the others are running a fuel pump as a fuel upgrade, about $200. Injectors are included in the price of the turbo setup) Tune (You are getting ROBBED if you think a tune cost $1200. PTuning charges $500 at max) IPT/Level 10 trans build (adding cost into something when you don't even know how the auto trans holds up. It's not a tC Auto trans you know. It derives from the IS which from my recollection handles a good amount of power). PS....No one says you have to run e85 you know. Pump gas #'s are still 300+whp which is still pretty quick in this car. |
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
(Post 4050819)
Most turbo setups are $5k (no brainer)
Gauges (varying types can be under $300 and as high as $1000+) e85 upgrades (this car and all the others are running a fuel pump as a fuel upgrade, about $200. Injectors are included in the price of the turbo setup) Tune (You are getting ROBBED if you think a tune cost $1200. PTuning charges $500 at max) IPT/Level 10 trans build (adding cost into something when you don't even know how the auto trans holds up. It's not a tC Auto trans you know. It derives from the IS which from my recollection handles a good amount of power). PS....No one says you have to run e85 you know. Pump gas #'s are still 300+whp which is still pretty quick in this car. Considering that my $1200 tune estimate includes the $800 engine management option, I'm surprised you took issue with it. It's also what Visconti is charging for a ECUtek tune. P-Tuning charges $500 for a one-time piggyhack tune which is not the same thing at all. As for the auto trans, you must be thinking of the A760E used in the IS350 and not the 40lb lighter A960E from the IS250. I'm pretty certain that the 86 uses a slightly modified A960E which normally handles no more than 204bhp and 186btq in the IS250. A 300whp pump gas "86" makes a lot more sense. |
Originally Posted by ScionFred
(Post 4050976)
Can you tell me more about this simple fuel pump upgrade? Is there at least a DIY for cutting apart the oem fuel tank assembly and making the larger pump work with the in-tank oem FPR? I quoted $1000 for conversion from low-volume returnless to a high-volume retun type fuel system.
Considering that my $1200 tune estimate includes the $800 engine management option, I'm surprised you took issue with it. It's also what Visconti is charging for a ECUtek tune. P-Tuning charges $500 for a one-time piggyhack tune which is not the same thing at all. As for the auto trans, you must be thinking of the A760E used in the IS350 and not the 40lb lighter A960E from the IS250. I'm pretty certain that the 86 uses a slightly modified A960E which normally handles no more than 204bhp and 186btq in the IS250. A 300whp pump gas "86" makes a lot more sense. Really? Installing a fuel pump does not constitute $1000 dollars. Even having a shop install the pump for you will not see the price you quoted. There is a DIY for installing a fuel pump in a tC, why do you come off as if there won't be one for this car? Secondly your $800 squeeze in for the management is already included in the price of the kit. Again, Not $1200 for a tune. I will have to track down the trans code, but pretty sure it's stout. Obviously if it was that weak, it wouldn't have even lasted 400whp on a dyno pull or be able to do this either: I very much understand that you are a pessimistic type person, at least when you post. To you, it's either already failed, or is going to fail. |
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