just look up your whp on the form from ''real'' people doing the dyno and you will already know what your car is putting out +-3whp ..... its pretty simple. Forget about what toyota is doing. Its too easy now days to lookup what your car is going to perform like before you buy it.

 

wow, i never knew there were two other sites!

 

what?

 

toyota life
lexus life
scion life

i just read the first post, sorry if it doesnt make sense with what the last 2 pages said, i was just in a "woah" moment

 

Not only that, but last thing I knew Toyota's were being built in America, with what 10 factories now??? I know the economy of SW Indiana have improved greatly thanks to Toyota. Toyota has a standard that they try to follow, its "build it where you sell it." This takes time and money and is the reason that up until the Lafayette, IN Subaru plant starts building Camry's, production has been supplemented with vehicles built in Japan. But then again it was the #1 selling car in America for many years and most were built in America, it just took time to get ALL production over here. Tundra is the ONLY full size pickup truck in America to be built in the areas they are most used, the midwest and Texas.

Sorry, I put up with a lot of stupid ppl that gripe at me for working for a "Jap" company. Last time I checked TMMI was incorporated in Indiana, not Japan. Who cares where the profit eventually ends up?? I'd be willing to bet that all of these idiots do 99% of their shopping at Wal-Mart, the largest importer of CHINEASE goods in the world. But they dont sit around and gripe about that because Sam Walton was an American. Who cares, Walmart is the store, not the manufacturer. Everything bought there makes a profit for the manufacturing company, probably one in China that pays there workers $3 a day. With cars the dealership is the store, so if your Toyota dealership is American owned..........And at least you know that the company that manufactured it pays a living wage, most likely to Americans for building it.

Sorry Darren, didnt mean to hijack your post, I just get tired of stupid ppl that dont know anything about...well, anything. I personally feel that if they are that stupid then I dont want them to be driving a Toyota and giving Toyota drivers a bad image.

 

^^ Scion is actually 100% Japanese built. But, so is almost everything else you buy.

As far as them saying you work at a "Jap" company, while US companies are short changing us by outsourcing everything overseas, Toyotas American factories work to purchase as many good in the US, since that is where they are building the cars and making their money. I read an article recently about it.. so they basically have more respect for the economies they do business in than many of our own companies. That and the lack of the UAW in thier plants will make them more prosperous here all the way around.

 

Toyota's philosophy is to improve the quality of life in the local community they operate in. It would be staggering to most people how much money The Big T donates to local schools, libraries, charities, ect. But because Toyota doesn't "toot" their own horn much, you rarely hear about it.

Also, to expand on the "build it where you sell it" philosophy. Toyota also takes that to heart with regards to their parts suppliers as well. A large percentage of them are located either around the community where the plant is, or within a few hours drive. This in-turn adds more jobs to the region.

 

It really is a shame that the US companies are so happy to bail on plants and employees so they can open a new plant in some 3rd world country. It does make it hard to support them. The place I used to work for closed 2 plants in North Carolina and opened a new one in China somewhere just to save a few dollars. The problem is the Chinese parts were crap and no longer met the customer requirements. It didnt stop them from moving more parts to that plant though and do nothing about the bad parts there were putting out. Its nice to see companies that will stick it out even with things arent going quite as planned.

 

I remember that. The "5.0 liter" engine was actually only 4.944 L, which only rounds to 5 if you round in whole liters, not tenth's of liters. They should have just stuck with english measurements and called it 302 cu. in., which sounds better anyway...

Ferrarri also had an engine that was 4.944 L, and they called theirs a 4.9 liter.

 

Actually it was the 320hp 4.6L. Seems not all of them actually made 320 hp. Lots of companies round the displacement off to something better sounding. Its different when you round off power especially if you are rounding up.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...rbuyback_x.htm

 

^^^^

different issue - I'm talking about the engines used in the 1979-1993 mustangs.

And I don't see that as a whole lot different than fudging the power numbers... its not like those rx-8's drove any slower than on the day of their test drive.

 

This of course all depends on where you live. You will find that anywhere with high humidity, running your AC all the time can be common, even in the winter. Of course, if they're going to change the standard to include all the added accessories, then they should just change the ratings to denote whp.

Not to mention, I have a feeling that if Brandon were to pop open the computer that he's using to send that email, he would likely find many parts if not all of them that are manufactured outside the U.S.

 

That isnt fudging... that is standard practice. The tC is a 2360CC motor, not exactly 2.4L, they just round that to an even amount so they dont have to say 2.36L . The camry 3.0L V6 is actually 2.995L , the Honda civics had 1.665L and 1.998L engines. I cant think of an engine that is exactly equivalent to its metric displacement

 

Are you really an engineer? In what kind of mathematical system does 4.944 round to 5.0? It can round to 5, but to round to 5.0 requires that the number be at least 4.95

 

Hmm, just how much can one squeeze out of 0.006L of displacement?

 

4.94 or 5.0 doesnt matter. GM made a 396 V8 and it wasnt 396 ci. Either way displacement isnt important. Horsepower is since its the amount of work you are doing in a time period.

 

Did I say it was mathematically perfect? Please read before spewing out crap like that. I said it was standard practice.. "standard practice" in no way refers to or means "mathematically correct". All car companies round up to the nearest tenth of a liter (or liter if it is convenient) on their engines.

It just makes the nameplate sound better. I could care less since I actually read the specs on something I spend thousands of dollars on before purchasing. In all the documentation they state the exact spec.. all motorcycles are rated the same as well. I dont feel to "ripped off" over that whole .056 L

 

Displacement should be at least as important - it is measureable and not open to interpretation (or at least it wouldn't be if companies didn't introduce rounding errors).

Horsepower, on the other hand, has to be calculated using tests that introduce several things that can "fudge" the numbers - rpm, engine loading, whether accessories are on or off, what the density altitude during the test is, grade of fuel used.

Torque can be a more reliable measure than horsepower, so like displacement it is generally a more "solid" number than horsepower. But I've lost that argument in other places on this board too.

 

I am not trying to be argumentative at all here.. but HP is directly calculated from tq and rpm, so hp can in no way be fudged without fudging on the tq number as well. TQ is also effected by all the variables mentioned.

 

i want my .006 L now dammit! LOL. I've read here we can't bore our blocks, that would've easily given it to us I imagine. Without a LSD this platform, especially with manual transmission, can't handle much more power (hp/torque, whatever) anyhow.