SePaTc

so i've finally finalized my goal for the tc (assuming i keep it, but even if not, it will likely be a one-off tc, for a while anyway).

sticking with my plan of having a badass street tuned NA tc, and after doing some research on Yoda engines, i've come up with a new name for my project:

"The 2AZ-GHE TC" (i think it looks cool. lol)

the "F" in "-FE" denotes a narrow valve angle DOHC head.

i'm going to run Brian crower cams (probably) for a wider valve angle (denoted by a "G" in toyota engine code

and going to run JE hi compression pistons (in toyota engine code, high compression ratio engines, above 9.8 are denoted with an "H"

And the "E" is for electronic fuel injection.

so with my new NA setup, i will have a badass 2az-ghe that will hopefully be pushing 200whp with a nice safe tune.

Should be a wicked car, and be able to smoke rsx-s's and Si's (stock of course haha)

thoughts, comments, suggestions??? this build probably won't happen until late august, but i'm going to start spec'ing out parts and labor and possibly ordering parts soon. thanks for not flaming.

and don't say just boost it. Every 19 year old kid who just watched F&F says that. I'm trying to stay off that bandwagon. I don't need boost to build a quick street car. I buck the trend.

engifineer

And what head are you going to use?

Mightygnu

im wondering the same thing..lol

SePaTc

either just use stock head, maybe some headwork, or grab a spare stock head from the junk and do a full port and polish job, valves springs retainers, etc....

that will depend on how much moola i have available to burn at the time.

but i'd like to retain vvti, which i'm not sure the crower cams would anyway, so might be moot.

any suggestions o mighty scion guru?

XD40tC

Why spend on that cashola if you just wanna smoke rsx's and si's? With that money you can smoke them AND evos, stis, and pancake mobiles!

SePaTc

i'm looking to spend 2-3 grand all told on the motor including tuning and all. theres no turbo kit out there for that little (including install labor, tuning and supporting mods).

plus, as i alluded to, i like to be different. I don't "need" 250-300 hp at all (in a fwd daily driver), i commute to work about 50 miles a day, and don't feel like blowing thru gas, having heat buildup issues, and reliability issues (since we all know, the stock internals/motor will only last so long even at moderate boost levels).

no, my mind has been made up for a LONG time. no boost for this tc.

i just want a car thats fun to drive. I don't have to be able to be faster than every car on the road. I don't have anything to prove. no chip on my shoulder. no alpha male syndrome. no compensation for a small member by having the highest hp tc on the forums...

redwar1441

cams do not change the valve angle or the cmbustion chamber designe wich is the differance between the f and g heads. It will still be and f type motor. For cams i highly recmend web cams. Look at their site and see who they build cams for. Toyota off road baja trucks and formula atlantic race cars (4age motor).

JE pistons are considered the best. Ive always had good luck with CP pistons. Dezod has some nice oversized valves. You'll also need an emanage. They nly real way t make mre power NA with this motor is to slightly increase the rev range (cant go t much because of the head designe) and utilize larger valves along with a notable increase in compresion. (10+ to 1) More agressive cams and valves will cause a loss of power in lower rpms as always.

Making NA power with a 2azfe is very expensive and slightly difficult since toyota designed this motor to do its job very well. Pass emmisions, fuel economy, and torque, and oh yeah be fairly bulletproof (well except the con rods wich are toothpics.)

SePaTc

^^^ yeah, okay. you know what you're talking about. :D
the con rods AND crank are forged steel....which, i guess in your way of thinking, resembles toothpicks. :D

the 2azfe already makes decent power for a NA 4 banger stock. de stroke it and raise the redline and you'll probably pull out closer to 180 hp.

you're taking me WAY too literally. i'm well aware that i will still have the same head. all "F" denotes is that it is a narrow valve angle DOHC head. "G" motors have wide valve angle DOHC heads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_engines

Not all "-Fx" heads have the same internal design. eg. the 2az-fe and 3rz-fe do not have the same head. :D

all i'm using the "G" for is to denote the higher lift/duration cams and free flowing head that i plan on running. coupled with the 11:1 compression ratio, it is definitely going to be a different motor. i don't need to run it by toyota first like i was going to put this engine into production. :D

lol, people refer to their turbo tc's as 2az-fte...and they still have a stock motor! :D

engifineer

That is why I asked which head you were using.. since it sounded like you thought the cams would actually change the valve angle

cessblood

Watching. I want to see the outcome.

SePaTc

haha, no. did not think that. honestly, the valve angle is really not all that important to me and is the last thing on my mind. I'm not focusing on how to widen the valve angle here.

the end result is the main point. using aftermarket cams (or a rebuilt head) would accomplish the same goal as using a wider valve angle head.....to allow more air to enter the cylinder.

SePaTc

lol, don't hold your breathe as i said, its going to be at least august until i actually get any work done.

i just wanted to start this thread to get some feedback, ie. suggestions, reviews of parts, similarly related engine build experiences, etc...

the main thing i'm concerned about is vvti. i don't want to lose it. and if i can retain it, i'm pretty sure i will need some form of vvti controller to properly set the timing so the car doesn't idle like crap...and smell like it too.

3min3m2

not expierence with VVT-i, but i can really put money on needing a controler for it....

good luck, its always fun to be different

engifineer

Why not go all they way... sleeve it and bore it. I believe you can safely get between 2.5 & 2.6L out of it. Then get the right head machining done.. larger valves, custom cams, fuel/vvti controllers, high comp pistons.... we can go on and on here

TCpete

hey dude just to let you know.. im not sure if you've watched anything i've posted but i finished by NA tc build and am pushing 189 whp untuned and acheived 194-195 with a mild tune that my friend did with a temp EMS im using just for fun and still some upgrades left i havent had time to work on

but

im running a fullly built head with alot of work + semi built bottom end with HC pistons, rods, and new bearings..

im almost about to tap 200 whp + once i finish with the 3/4 things i have left to do on the motor.. if you want dyno sheets LMK.. you dont need that much work for get to 200 if thats what your goal is.. but if you want more then your looking at a much more complex and expensive build which in the long run going on boost might be a better suggestion

but i love ALL MOTOR power.. and yea am currently having a nice time with rsx's and new SI's (they are slower)

my advice to you.. p&p head, 3 angle valve job, HC pistons, rods, bearings, oversized valves and a good titanium valve train and finish it up with a good EMS tune.. and yea 200 is right were you will be at..

currenty wisco sells 11.1 compression pistons for the tc..those are the ones i am currently using..LMK if u want me to post up some dyno #s

engifineer

I would be more interested in the dyno curve than the numbers. 200whp would be even nicer if it has a pretty flat curve

TCpete

thats kinda going to be a little difficult to manage lol.. but its not impossible.. look at my curves below..


the sweet spot on our cars NA is about 4k rpms - 5k maybe 5.5k rpms.. from there it starts to die off and typical of most dyno sheets on an NA tc. that most comes from the head not being able to keep up the in/out flow of air.. its sort of a bottle neck effect.. to a certain point it says enough is enough and then the ecu will start to retard your timing in the end since our reaching the higher rpms and says i dont think so sucka no more power for you. once you've p&p the head that changes everything.. as u see now my power curve extends almost to 6k before falling off ever so slightly..

ive managed to keep the hp and tq curves at a longer peak duration which is great but still fall a little flat in the end.. im hoping with the upgraded midpipe coming soon and an EMS should help put me at 200 or more whp.. that with some other small littel things, here and there.

redwar1441

have you ever taken apart a 2az? seriously, the rods suck. Ask dezod or zpi. And not to sound like a ____ but please dont school me on toyota head designs. Ive built enough toyota race motors to think ive erned some bragging rights.


oh and btw camcon makes a vvti controller. But like i said check out web cams.

engifineer

I have heard people say "the rods suck", but I have seen as many or more cars running 300 hp with no issues in that area. And from the photos I have seen they are about as beefy as any other econobox out there. Granted, they aren't high performance rods by any means, but no one can expect them to be up to par for a 300+ hp setup for a long time.. the car came with 160.

And who is trying to "School" you on anything? Calm down a tad.

redwar1441

yeah youre right. The rods are the weak point in this motor but it should still be noted that the weak point doesnt show up until well past double stock output.
Oh and im a little disgruntled right now, my tc is all smashed up and i cracked the frame on my bike!! GRR.