LOLZ, I just read that link eng. Poor thing but yeah, Bypass is a good safety precaution but some people that have it say it doesn't work until the filter is fully submerged and by then its too late really. There's one person I know that had a CAI and when through water with his xA with no problem, switched it to short ram, went through a little water and popped the motor Kinda seems backwards but oh well, what can you do besides not driving the car when its raining, like I plan on doing

 

Exactly. Here's why:

 

Who is Dr.Isotope?

 

^^You've never heard of the designer of the Ghetto Fabulous Intake, CAI fender mount, and Doc I's Short Shifter??

Here's the entire thread:

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=167435

 

Never heard of him. What company? Does he have a website?

 

Never heard of him?? You need to get around the forums more...

www.doctorisotope.com

 

I've been back for 2 months since taking a break, I guess never ran in to him in the forums

 

lol at this thread taht u dont need a bypass valve with a CAI..do what u want but im still going to have a bypass valve on any CAI i buy

 

regardless of the amount of water, the bypass valve is designed to open when enough suction is created, which is at the point where water can be pulled all the way up the pipe. The bypass valve doesnt know if the filter is submerged or not. But it should open well before enough lift is applied to the water to get it inside the engine.

And menace... if you want a short shifter, doc is the guy to buy it from. I am sporting one and love it, not to mention his prices are way more reasonable than most others out there. He sells a lot of other stuff as well. Good guy and nice parts. He wont do you wrong.

 

Except this is not what's happening, people with bypasses ARE getting water into their cylinders.

I remember on another thread you talked about the video of the guy dropping the intake of an Acura NSX into a bucket of water and the bypass opened and protected the engine. And I'm sure if you did this to a tC it would work, as long as the filter was suddenly and completely submerged, and you weren't revving the engine.

(Let's put common sense aside for a minute.) But what if you drive into water that doesn't completely submerge your filter? The test I would like to see is an intake dropped into an empty bucket, and then start filling with water and revving the engine like you would if driving. Would the bypass open up before you covered the filter? I would bet not. And I believe you could cover that filter 90-95% and that bypass is still closed. And at some RPM in your revving you're sucking up enough water molecules to hydrolock.

Any volunteers?

 

And here we go again! The reason people are still getting water in there intakes is b/c of improper installation of the bypass valve. I made a commit about this several months ago. Due to the design of the injen intake and how close the short ram and the cold air extension are to each other the pipes need to be cut for the bypass valve to work. Someone posted a commit back " Cut a $230 dollar intake I don't think so" and then I posted my commit well I would much rather cut a $230 dollar intake and then to blow my engine and have to spend 3,000 on a new engine. Getting back to the point the pipes only have about a 1/4 of gap between both of them. That may not be the exact distance but given the size of the bypass valve its not enough to make it work properly without trimming at least 1/2" off of both sides. I have had a Injen CAI on my car since 1,000 miles and the bypass valve was installed just after the intake was. I now have almost 53,000 miles on the tc and haven't sucked up water. I have custom wire mesh grills in all four places on the front bumper, so the filter is subjected to water getting on it directly and I haven't had issues with it.

 

"Here we go again" ???

First off, are you assuming everyone who got water in their engine installed their bypass incorrectly?

You didn't understand what I wrote earlier. I'm saying the bypass will not protect your engine in the case of a partial submerge, EVEN IF you installed it correctly.

 

Can you show me examples of people with a bpv hydrolocking? And in those I would like to see how they are installed.

The NSX ran at 5000 rpm with the filter in the water, I would say that is revving for sure.

And again, what does submerging the filter have to do with it? I think the point being missed is that it opens under enough suction to pull water up the tube. So regardless of where the water level is, if the suction is great enough to pull the water up, the valve is designed to open. In other words, assuming the valve is installed correctly and is operating. And submerging is the worst case scenario, since you have the most pressure differential at that point.

As far as water molecules entering, have you ever seen the method for knocking thick carbon deposits off the top of pistons involving water? I have stood there while people have stuck a vacuum line in a cup of water to do this, so that small of an amount will not necessarilly damage your engine. Now as a disclaimer, dont try this if you dont know what you are doing.. you suck up too much and you will have some issues for sure. But any tiny droplets that may make it in will do nothing to your engine. 5 tablespoons at once (during one combustion cycle, in the same cylinder) would probably be dangerous and goes along with what I have heard about this engine.

And of course, no matter how good the valve is, things can still go wrong, especially if someone does somethign dumb like driving into hood deep water. Bypass or not, the water level is approaching the highest part of the intake, you are screwed either way.

Not knocking what some are saying completely, but I dont think everyone is thinking through how water is pulled up a pipe and what happens when there is still a path for air to follow as an alternative.

And whether they work 100% (nothing does usually) or not, my point was that saying the tC doesnt need one because of filter placement is incorrect. It has been proven that people will hydrolock this car with a CAI installed. So even if the bypass valve (relatively cheap part) prevents 50% of them, then that is well worth one imo as opposed to buying a new engine that is not covered by warranty.

 

Here is the article: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...lve/index.html

 

From the first page of this thread:

This is one example. If he installed the bypass incorrectly maybe he can chime in and say one way or the other.

Until then it seems reasonable that the wave from the passing truck tidal-waved his CAI filter, (as others have posted up about their filters getting soaked.) The bypass would not have opened in this situation, so the water must have entered through the CAI filter. Meaning the bypass did not prevent the hydolocking.

If someone wants to assume that this is all due to incorrect bypass installation, that's your prerogative. Until we know different there is no reason to believe this device works in any situation FOR OUR CAR except possibly a full and sudden submerge.

I have said that the only anti-water CAI device worth buying is the "heat shield", which can be used as a splash guard for either a CAI or SRI. We see now that a SRI can hydro from water surfing through the hood gap. The same way it can surf down onto an exposed CAI filter.

 

Well, if it did douse the car (over the hood) and water was up onto the intake far enough to open the valve, then it could have just as easilly pulled water through the bypass valve. Again, there are the situations where nothing would have stopped it from happening.

And again, you are off on the fully submerged thing. Fully subrmerged is WORST case. But in any case, if the suction is enough to pull water up a foot or two in the pipe, the valve should open, unless the valve is faulty. If it does open, and water is being poured onto the valve itself, it is pretty much common sense that it will get pulled into the motor.

And there is NO 100% protection, especially a splash shield. Put all the sheilds you want on it, but if they are sitting in a puddle of water you will pull water through them... if they are air and water tight... that would prevent the car from running to begin with.

And a bypass valve will be less effective on an SRI, since it is going to still be sitting about at the same level as the rest of the intake. If water gets that far up, gravity will do the rest anyway.

 

Midlife, in their testing they quickly lowered and raised the filter from the bucket of water while at WOT on an NSX. That is by far worse than any splash, or a "tidal" wave from a passing vehicle. We know from the testing that if installed correctly it will prevent hydro locking. No splash, bypass valve or not will make you hydro lock your engine. I've seen cases on this forum with people locking their cars with the valves as well, but you also have to take into consideration that the valve is made by AEM for THEIR intakes. The moment you try to hack stuff, you may give your self a false piece of mind.

In their testing, the water rose 18". I believe that is longer than the cold air extension in the injen cai, which is where most people try to attach it to. When someone slaps a cai on their vehicle they need to be ready for water, thats a chance they chose to take.

 

If you really want an anti water setup that works more effectively, then build a proper air box for it. In other words, build the GFI (which from all info and thought is much better than the overpriced metal tubes being sold out there) which still has the airbox, or an airbox, in place. Filter goes in the airbox, not at the end. This, for one will make it much harder to pull water up into the filter since it will tend to fall into the airbox bottom first. Second, create a method for opening the airbox to engine bay air when it is raining or wet outside. It would be fairly easy to do this electrically as well so you dont even have to get out of the car. An airbox with a slide to open this way has been used by tons of off road guys for this very reason. You leave it closed so it pulls through the CAI portion when the weather is dry and open the side when off road, so you are in bypass mode all the time. Of course if you drive into hood deep water your are still out of luck... but you would be with any setup short of a snorkel

 

And no I am not assuming that people everyone is installing it incorrectly. I had this discussion several months ago and that's what I meant by here we go again. And when someone replies back "Cut a $230 intake I don't think so" tells me that person didn't install it correctly and some other replies were "you don't have to cut the intake to install the bypass valve" would also tell me they didn't install it correctly. I am taking a job overseas for a year, if you can wait until I return I will do a full blown test for you before I install my built motor. I should return from the job sometime around Aug or Sept of 08 contact me then and I will do a test.

 

The irony