Best Brand of OIL?
04-13-2009, 07:33 PM
#43
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Drive a Scion tC '06 with 64k miles on it. Been researching oil for the past hour now trying to decide what to use. Warrenty is up in 11k miles and gonna do my own oil changing. Pretty much set on Royal Purple or Castrol Edge. Redline, Mutol, Amsoil, etc are a little more than what I'd like to spend. Especially changing my oil almost every two months or 4k miles with the amount I drive. Edge was better in that IVA wear test or whatever, but I also found out RP has a much much higher film strength. Read somewhere that RP has graphite in it's oil, which can cause oil clotting. Edge is approx. $1 cheaper than RP, but so many people use RP in their tC's nowadays and there's a lot more info on it/usage topics than Edge since it's so new. Planning on sticking with 5w30. Would a RP oil filter be a good idea no matter oil I use tho? They sound like a good idea. Just looking for any additional input anyone has or something to finalize my decision I guess, haha. Thanks in advance
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
#44
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Best way to find out which oil is best for your car is to get the used oil analyzed. Blackstone labs will do a used oil analysis (UOA) for $22.50. A UOA basically consists of counting how many wear metals are found in the oil in parts per million (PPM). The less the PPM of wear metals the better the oil is. You can also get a test to see how much usefulness the oil has. This is called a TBN. It tests how much detergent and dispersant the oil has. A good synthetic oil should have a TBN of around 10 when new. As the oil gets used up it will go down.
Here's a used oil analysis of a 2006 tC. He used Motul E-tech Lite. The oil was inside his engine for 10,000 miles, and these are the results he got.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...387226&fpart=1
Here's another tC owner who had 3 UOAs done on his car. He used three different brands, Amsoil, Penzoil, and dealer fill.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...260401&fpart=1
To better understand read this explination from Blackstone-labs about wear metals.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
So as you can see, saying which is best without data to back it up is rather pointless. Get whatever is in your car analyzed, and if you get good results stick with it. I'm currently running Motul, and I will get analyzed once I have 5K miles on that oil. I will post the results when I do. Another good brand of oil that constantly gets good UOA results is Castrol 0W-30 European Formula (aka German Castrol). This oil can only be found in Autozones. If you have access to this oil I would definitely use it over Mobil 1. Some of the M1 UOA I've seen aren't so hot. If the Motul doesn't work out for me, I will be trying the Castrol next.
Here's a used oil analysis of a 2006 tC. He used Motul E-tech Lite. The oil was inside his engine for 10,000 miles, and these are the results he got.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...387226&fpart=1
Vehicle:
06 Scion tC, 2.4L, 4-cyl (2AZFE)
Oil:
Motul 8100 E-Tech Lite 0W/30
Oil additives:
None
Make up oil added:
None
Engine oil capacity:
4 quarts
Oil filter:
Mobil 1 EP 103
Air filter:
K&N direct replacement (cleaned at 20k)
Miles on oil/filter:
10,002
Miles on vehicle:
30,002
UOA by Blackstone Laboratories:
Elements in PPM:
Aluminum: 3
Chromium: 1
Iron: 18
Copper: 4
Lead: 3
Tin: 0
Molybdenum: 17
Nickel: 2
Manganese: 1
Silver: 0
Titanium: 0
Potassium: 1
Boron: 69
Silicon: 31
Sodium: 9
Calcium: 3000
Magnesium: 207
Phosphorus: 936
Zinc: 1151
Barium: 0
Properties:
SUS Viscosity @ 210 F: 58.3
cST Viscosity @ 100 C: 9.73
Flashpoint in F: 395
Fuel %: <0.5
Antifreeze %: 0.0
Water %: 0.0
Insolubles %: 0.3
TBN: 2.3
TAN: N/A
ISO Code: N/A
COMMENTS:
The only unusual find here was silicon, which isn't really that high in the grand scheme of things. Silicon can come from several sources, including dirt getting past the air filter, sealers, additives, or silicone-based lubes used elsewhere in the engine. in the case of sealers, additives, or lubes, silicon is harmless. Wear was fine so we dont think the silicon came from dirt, though we'll keep an eye on it next time. We found no sign of any gas, moisture or antifreeze in this sample. The TBN read 2.3, still some active additive left. Try 12,000 miles next.
06 Scion tC, 2.4L, 4-cyl (2AZFE)
Oil:
Motul 8100 E-Tech Lite 0W/30
Oil additives:
None
Make up oil added:
None
Engine oil capacity:
4 quarts
Oil filter:
Mobil 1 EP 103
Air filter:
K&N direct replacement (cleaned at 20k)
Miles on oil/filter:
10,002
Miles on vehicle:
30,002
UOA by Blackstone Laboratories:
Elements in PPM:
Aluminum: 3
Chromium: 1
Iron: 18
Copper: 4
Lead: 3
Tin: 0
Molybdenum: 17
Nickel: 2
Manganese: 1
Silver: 0
Titanium: 0
Potassium: 1
Boron: 69
Silicon: 31
Sodium: 9
Calcium: 3000
Magnesium: 207
Phosphorus: 936
Zinc: 1151
Barium: 0
Properties:
SUS Viscosity @ 210 F: 58.3
cST Viscosity @ 100 C: 9.73
Flashpoint in F: 395
Fuel %: <0.5
Antifreeze %: 0.0
Water %: 0.0
Insolubles %: 0.3
TBN: 2.3
TAN: N/A
ISO Code: N/A
COMMENTS:
The only unusual find here was silicon, which isn't really that high in the grand scheme of things. Silicon can come from several sources, including dirt getting past the air filter, sealers, additives, or silicone-based lubes used elsewhere in the engine. in the case of sealers, additives, or lubes, silicon is harmless. Wear was fine so we dont think the silicon came from dirt, though we'll keep an eye on it next time. We found no sign of any gas, moisture or antifreeze in this sample. The TBN read 2.3, still some active additive left. Try 12,000 miles next.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...260401&fpart=1
To better understand read this explination from Blackstone-labs about wear metals.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Elements are quantified in the oil at part per million levels (PPM). This list shows the most common sources of the elements in a gasoline or diesel engine oil.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings
(washes off as break-in occurs).
Nickel: Trace element in steel.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Trace element.
Potassium: Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc: Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Physical properties: Viscosity, flashpoint, % fuel and antifreeze, % water and insolubles are all measured in gasoline and diesel engine oils. If fuel is present in the oil, the viscosity and flashpoint will often be lower than what was stated in the "Should be" line. Insolubles are solid material that is centrifuged out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings
(washes off as break-in occurs).
Nickel: Trace element in steel.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Trace element.
Potassium: Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc: Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Physical properties: Viscosity, flashpoint, % fuel and antifreeze, % water and insolubles are all measured in gasoline and diesel engine oils. If fuel is present in the oil, the viscosity and flashpoint will often be lower than what was stated in the "Should be" line. Insolubles are solid material that is centrifuged out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.
04-14-2009, 01:40 AM
#46
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Scikotics
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Location: Houston, TX (Puerto Rico)
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^^ it looks like a post from someone that has done his homework.
^Plain and simple, it tells u what to look for. Go to "bob is the oil guy" and look at the UOA's and compare them, just remember that one specific oil will not work with every engine out there. Look for tC's, camry's, ect with the same engine. An example that I used a while back was the Royal Purple, while some folks think it is good, it is not doing so good on the rx8 engines.
I'm currently using PP 5w-30 and will be doing an UOA in the next couple of weeks before the oil change, depending on how I do I might move to Redline, Motul, eneos or Amsoil. Need to do some more comparison.
^Plain and simple, it tells u what to look for. Go to "bob is the oil guy" and look at the UOA's and compare them, just remember that one specific oil will not work with every engine out there. Look for tC's, camry's, ect with the same engine. An example that I used a while back was the Royal Purple, while some folks think it is good, it is not doing so good on the rx8 engines.
I'm currently using PP 5w-30 and will be doing an UOA in the next couple of weeks before the oil change, depending on how I do I might move to Redline, Motul, eneos or Amsoil. Need to do some more comparison.
04-14-2009, 01:55 AM
#47
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 104
It tells you how well and oil is protecting your engine. I'm just trying to stop this mentality of "X brand of oil is the best because I use it." How can anybody know what type of oil is best without any data to back it up?
04-14-2009, 03:29 AM
#48
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I really like RP, and have started using it recently, but I have always trusted Valvoline synthetic. Never let me down in any of my cars. The only one that I have been scared to use is Pennzoil, they have wax particals that cause build up. But then again I have known many people to use it and have no problems.
04-14-2009, 05:19 AM
#49
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Wow SFTifoso...Thanks a crap-ton. That's 10x more info than I even dreamed on getting about oil. I'll check into that blackstone for sure, and that german castrol sounds good too Thanks so much again!! I can't believe how much there is behind simply motor oil.
Should I change my viscosity/weight during winter? Or can 5w30 work year-round in aftermarket oils as it does in my dealer synthetic?
Should I change my viscosity/weight during winter? Or can 5w30 work year-round in aftermarket oils as it does in my dealer synthetic?
04-14-2009, 07:04 PM
#51
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Can someone tell me why calcium is in such high concentration? The metals I can understand, and the silicon, phosphorous, and sodium can be in the coolant and trace leach their way into the oil stream via head gasket and other oil / water separation gaskets, but calcium?
04-14-2009, 07:22 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by KraXxuS
Should I change my viscosity/weight during winter? Or can 5w30 work year-round in aftermarket oils as it does in my dealer synthetic?
04-14-2009, 09:57 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by vettereddie
Can someone tell me why calcium is in such high concentration? The metals I can understand, and the silicon, phosphorous, and sodium can be in the coolant and trace leach their way into the oil stream via head gasket and other oil / water separation gaskets, but calcium?
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings
(washes off as break-in occurs).
Nickel: Trace element in steel.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Trace element.
Potassium: Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc: Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Forgot to add, but go to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
04-16-2009, 07:43 PM
#55
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Found RP @ $101 for case of 12 quarts. Free shipping - not a bad deal.
http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-S.../dp/B000BNYMX2
$83.99 +$15 shipping here
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/S...&zmap=ZX340631
Ebay does 5qt's for $31 (shipping not included)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Royal...ht_2420wt_1020
http://www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-S.../dp/B000BNYMX2
$83.99 +$15 shipping here
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/S...&zmap=ZX340631
Ebay does 5qt's for $31 (shipping not included)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Royal...ht_2420wt_1020
04-19-2009, 10:11 PM
#58
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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If your tc is an 05 or 06, then the RP 5w30 will be fine. 07 and above stick with 0w20 that the factory recommends. Remember thicker doesn't mean better.
Anyways I found this awesome thread over at MY350Z.com. The UOA the guys post there are completely irrelevant to our engines, but on the first page there is tons of good info about motor oils.
http://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-d...-and-info.html
Anyways I found this awesome thread over at MY350Z.com. The UOA the guys post there are completely irrelevant to our engines, but on the first page there is tons of good info about motor oils.
http://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-d...-and-info.html
04-19-2009, 11:33 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by SFTifoso
..So as you can see, saying which is best without data to back it up is rather pointless..
Bravo SFTifoso! You have it figured out while most people will continue to be victims of marketing and name brand loyality.