I know that those camshaft are out for a while now, but i wonder if anyone is using those.
I'm interested in stage 2
Anyone out here with n/a tc using those if so what ems are you guys using
Thanks

 

^^^^^ im curious as well, watching..

 

Although I am boosted and do not have a set of cams on my car... I have heard in the past on other vehicles the brian crower cams have always been one of the worst performing cams on the market... I would wait and see what kelford comes up... They are currently working on a new cam for the K series motors and once that delopment is thru, I am looking forward to working with them to develop a cam for the scions.

 

crower cams seem to be hit and miss on some applications

 

i remember there was a post i read where someone had them. all i remember is that they worked fine with out a tune. though i would imagine you would see better gains with a tune, especially that you have a head work done.

 

Like notastockscion said they are hit or miss... The car that you read up on might have had a good set but if you are not in any real hurry to get cams (btw you will need to get springs and retainers for any cam worth while) I would wait for the kelfords... Typically their 272 setups work as good or out perform many cams on the market especially brian crower... Just my opinion

 

watching

 

Well according to Rado the turbo stage 3's made insane power on his time attack car.

I'd still like to see some dnyo proof before I buy them. Dont think that will happen anytime soon though.

 

so is anyone going to take into consideration our cars work on timing and not lift as a variable... or did we alll forget that in 2azfe101. not worth the 700 investment + another 2000 in a standalone and tuning with a another 1k in the valve train upgrade for only 10-20 whp....

 

it works on both timing and lift

 

no it does not... toyota made 2 types of big dohc motors in 4cyl class that run on the current prod vehicles... vvtli and vvti controlled motors... both work on timing only 1 works on lift... go under your hood and read what your plastic engine cover says.

 

So our camshafts have no lift specs?

I have a spec no plastic engine cover thanksq

 

Regardless of the Variable Cam implementation, a more efficient cam will make more power. Just how much is unknown.

 

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/02/vvt-i-its-all-a.html

a quick indepth explanation... there is no LIFT involved.. ONLY overlap of when the intake and exhuast valves open and close.. i dont know how much more black and white it needs to be.

 

While it may only have variations controlled in timing, having different lift characteristics would change the volumetric efficiency of the motor, especially if there has been headwork done as someone mentioned earlier. Improve VE and you change the possible application of power the motor is capable of.

 

efficient is not the word you should use.... if you change the lift duration of the cam your not really letting more air in or out because the ecu controls the timing... this is not like old school OBD2/OBD1/OBD0 or most domestic "pushrod" technology were by rotating the distributor will alow you to manually advance or retard your timing based on a new cam... timing adjustments will need to be made if not then you essentially do not have an efficient cam shaft and will be hurting your power band/fuel consumption etc etc.....

since our cars timing is ecu controlled via newer obd2 technology and "vvti" notice theres no L there for lift like in other toyota motors... all you are really doing is throwing in a cam and praying the ecu will adjusts itselfs timing by reading the o2 mixtures and by how your currently driving... the problem with this is that the ecu will gradually retard your timing when the o2 readings are all outta wak and hence you wont see much gain... this is why it is required for doing an NA application for you to advance the timing to compensate for the added air/fuel delivery... and since the only system out there currently that offer advanced timing is the AEM and possibly the Hydra as well.... just throwing on the cam alone will not get you the necessary correct amount of timing u will need to intake and exit the flow of air and fuel...

ppl who are use to the old ways of doing things have a hard time grasping this concept...this is not old motor tech we are doing here.. this is new motor tech were the ecu has way more control then it ever has.

yes our cams have lift specs.. but see above.

 

What about those who already a have standalone that you listed?


I was about to buy the na stage 2 cams untill I read your post. I'm not gonna lie that I dont know too much about heads and cams. I'm not gonna waste 500 bucks unless it gives me a more then 20whp.

 

in your case its completely different... you have the standalone BUT your also turbo which changes everything completely... this is now a matter of FORCED air rather then SUCKED in air... the amount of volumed air for you per stroke will be much greater!! for you it would be an advantage to try it...

but this is for NA apps ..... as per the OPs post... so im strictly speaking for NA apps...

 

I am well aware of VVT-i vs VVTL-i, VTEC, AVEC implementations.

You would be adjusting the IGNITION timing by adjusting the distributor, you would not effect the Camshaft timing, which would remain fixed unless you had a adjustable cam gear. Newer OHV and DOHC non lift/phasing engines have electronic ignition timing and are capable of making increased power even though their computers may not adjust to the change effectively. They will make some power, whether it is worth it for the cost of the part would be application specific.

It maybe true that the toyota ecu would counteract the increased valve lift or a difference in lobe separation negatively. Most engines varible cam phase/lift or not will make some power without ecu tuning. Sometimes it takes messing with the ramp profile of the cam as is the case with Saturns. Other times lobe separation or overall lift is upseting the computer. That is why R&D must be performed by the performance company in order to maximize gains on OEM ECU's.

 

my bad... i did forget to mention cam gear but that really only applies to honda motors/ some toyota motors... from the older years.... thats why i mentiond domestics.. just trying to cover the largest spectrum possible... ive owned and built many NA motors domestic and import.. this newer technology is a PITA....

im not doubting BC's r&d however they have shown little to no real proof of their cams being worth it in NA apps.