oldman

drag "cars" it depends, given unlimited money a M3 will always be faster then an 4 banger. I have a group of buds that went full on into Evo racing. Each one has trans problems, none are as fast as my last LS1 Camaro. I know a few buds that autoX their M3 and do a lot of street fighting too. No problems with the car. The Evo depending on the state of tune can "win" a drag but when it comes to an all around car I'd still take the M3, you just have to show up at an autoX and watch the BMW guys, the Evo / STI guys are WAY WAY behind. Forget the 4 WD hype, a proper setup M3 is near untouchable and can last!

Yes it is a tC forum and once you get $70,000 into a 600 HP tC um it is not really a car. One of the sports compact mags got a RSX-S with like $75,000 into it. Read it and they you figure out the guy should have just got a Z06 2006 Vette.

oneslowxa

i think it all depends on driver/tuner race as well as track setup... unfortunately many evo/sti owners are young kids who DON'T know how to drive their cars to there full potential...

kungpaosamuraiii

Amen, man. Amen. M3 = t3h l33t.. actually it's more like, Das UBER!

Given unlimited money, I think I'd just spring for the Porsche GT4.

Anyhow, while surfcity speaks of perfect worlds, I'm kinda stuck in my limited money world. 50,000 for a 10 second Evo or tC (since we're supposed to be talking about tCs) will probably be a better investment if I plan on racing. Win a few and I'll spend about 120,000 on a BMW engine for what I believe really is the ultimate driving machine.

But honestly, 120,000 is almost as much as my house cost. 50,000 is just under what we paid for the Civic, the Saturn, and the Camry.

But again, this is all null anyways since the best returns will probably come from a Chevy small (or big..) block.

oldman

Not the Evo guys I know, and they have $$$ too. The car is a money pit, glad I did not get one.

Look you said car with 20K engine, I said at that point it is no longer a car, play on words all you like. I got a car and I'm putting maybe $5000.00 into the engine and trans, 2K into the rims, tires and suspension. Any more money and I'd be better off with a better platform like an IS300 or 330i.

See:

surfcity40

i'm not a homer for scion. that motor cost nowhere near $70,000. that is a $12,000 motor (not talking about all the other sponsor chit on the car) my point was merely, for a four banger, that set up is huge bang for the buck. comparing it to an M3, vette, yada, yada, is absurd. i'm not talking about a daily driver and the 2.4 wouldn't be in the M3 or vette class. but i am still amazed at what they are sucking out of this motor.

oldman

Hey I agree I have said at least 20 times in this thread that comparing this RACE engine shoved into a show “car” to a car is insane. There is no bang for the $$$ comparison between a race engine and a street car, a street car will always be much more expensive per HP because it actually has to last.

kungpaosamuraiii

I'm a little lost by now.

By the sounds of it, we all agree with eachother?

30,000 dollar tC is great bang/dollar.

Said tC compared to an equally modded M3 is no comparison.

Said M3 will also cost more than said tC.

tC loses out to the M3 as regular cars.

With unlimited money, go for the more expensive car. With limited money go for the tC.

Nitto is sucking out a LOT of power from this little 2.4l.


Or am is there still discrepancies?

ZPIracing

We have talked to Kenny Tran many times, this car has cost well over 100k. The motec alone was 8k plus they flew in to install in. Nitto spent 100k to build the car and this does not include all of the free sponsored parts.

I think that this power can be realized for a whole lot less but in this particular case money was no object.

surfcity40

nope...that about says it. and i too would take the M3 to go get the groceries over the nitto. but to go get the groceries in low11s or less?...i'd take the nitto, not the M3....hehe

jmiller20874

100K

Does anyone know what that car has done in the 1/4? Has it even been taken down the track? I'd sure love to see a vid of that run.

utatc7218

Here is an idea... if your gonna spend a hundred grand why not get a viper... 500 horses right off the bat with room for more... and plus its way more of a status symbol. looks better too.

oldman

A $30,000 tC like you have described: stock +10,000 race engine = RACE VEHCILE there IS no comparison to a car like an M3.

Yep the M3 + $10,000 of engine mods should get you one INSANELY fast, street ride the looks good and is a hottie magnet. No comparison to a RACE VEHCILE base on a tC which um while fast when trailer’ed to the ¼ mile, just can’t take babes out… like a car can.

There is NO comparison between a race car and a street car. In any streetable condition an M3 is a better car. THAT IS REALITY. To put $100,000 into a tC you have to be either sponsored on INSANE, I’m sure this is a sponsorship / advertisement car.

A tC with a $10,000 engine still loses out to a M3 that you could buy second hand for say $27,000.00 Once you get into 5 digit range of engine modification, you should really start evaluating the platform. But hey this is IMO and I’ve had performance cars forever..

See above, I intend to spend somewhere less then $10,000 worth of mods in total on my tC. Say $7500.00. At some point it makes more sense getting a better platform to mod then putting insane cash into a tC. Look I paid of my tC which out the door was $18,300, not loan but PAID for, I will put $7500 into it all in cash so now we just shy of $26,000. I could buy a low mile used Supra already setup with single turbo for that kind of cash. Hence IMO $7500 is the LIMIT for all mods on a tC, any more then that you will end up flushing huge $$$ for increasingly less performance.

I for one have owned and driven 350 WHP to 450 WHP FWD cars and these cars have POOR street manners. While a 350 WHP to 450 WHP RWD or 4 WD are completely and totally streetable. My LS1 Camaro at sub 400 WHP was a very stable ride, able to street kill 99.999% of the cars that travel to and fro along public roads. My 350 WHP FWD GS-R pure street conditions would wonder 1/3 lane or more on shifts and just about lose all steering when on the gas so even minimal turns the car would push out of the turn.

I can tell from your post you have NEVER owned nor driven high $$$, high performance cars, while I have and I know there is far more to street performance then just HP under the hood.

dachmo

Nissan Skyline Z-Tune

kungpaosamuraiii

The most power I've ever driven would be... 191 hp...

I'm not arguing that a 30,000 tC will be a good "car" in the sense it would drive ok to school. I just argue that for a 50,000 dollar budget to spend on a racer (ie, not a car) it would be more prudent to go with the tC. BTW, this would be my insanely rich friend who wants to start his own little race team.

Oh, and he's a Chinese racist that won't touch an American car with a ten foot stick unless to bash it. I can't say it's unfounded.. his parents were in two or three accidents involving unfortunate mishaps with suspension or brakes or something in two or three American cars.

Supra it is I guess.

antireversion

This car was built as a no holds barred , rolling bill board for NITTO/JOTECH motorsports, money was no object {obviously} and wasnt meant to drive on the street or the race track :read "showcar" and the only reason this car makes 500+ hp is because it can, once an engine is fully built , the only difference between 200 and 800 hp is dyno time and tuning. A car that makes this much power, and is this clean doesnt have to make sense to everyone. You guys are confusing the TOTAL build cost with the engine cost : hp ratio, and between machine, parts, and turbo componants to support, the hp of this engine could be duplicated by anyone competant enough to know what parts to buy for say...less than $10,000, add that to the cost of the car, roughly $18,000= $28,000 for a very cool 500 hp street car that would kick the **** out of almost any , daily driven blown vette, for less than half the cost
lol

engifineer

And all the reliability of a chrysler product.......

The point to them though is not how much they spent on the tC. If they were to start with a 500 HP viper they would have ended up dumping an extra 50 grand in it. They build cars.. that is the point.

Not poking at you utatc... just making a point

oldman

OK I was with you until your post went to lala land… $10,000 into a tC engine ain’t going to beat a blow Vette. LOL did you write that?

Too funny $10,000 worth of engine plus stock tC = blown Vette stomper. Yeah right, in your dreams.

OK I stopped laughing, what was this tC going to beat the Vette in? Engine destruction, I’m sure it will. AutoX, ¼ mile, street spank down, road race, canyon carver. What?

I worked on a Lingenfelter twin turbo Vette. 550 WHP, mid 11s with street tires, .95 g turns. What is the highest HP pump gas 4 banger? 350 WHP… maybe a little more, go ahead and find me a pump gas dyno on a 4 banger above 400 WHP. There is a pump gas dyno shootout every year, last year a Supra on spray + turbo won at 511 WHP. Even with an engine, the tC stock with FWD, no LSD, no suspension, poor tires. You think $10,000 into a tC engine into a stock tC can even beat a stock Z06 in ANY performance criteria? I mean beside MPG which I’m sure would be close.

Reality hits as $10,000 into a tC’s engine still yields far less then stock Z06, might not even be able beat a stock Z28 in any category which could be had for sub $20,000.

Picky up the latest ricer mag and the HKS RSX-S has $75,000 into it and a bone stock 06 Z06 would destroy the car. THAT MY FRIEND IS REALLITY. That is a STOCK Vette vs a $75,000 pro built RSX-S with turbo, you still think $10,000 slammed into a stock tC’s engine is gonna turn a tC into a blown Vette stomper?

jmiller20874

^^^ If it's raining....yes, especially the Z28

oldman

I see you never had a FWD turbo over 300 HP and LSD in the rain, I lived in Hawaii for a while and you may think FWD works wonders in limited traction.. till you toss in a LSD coupled to a peaky engine with turbo.... put the word "fun" into full pants sh!tting direct experience. Most Z28 have traction control same as the Vette, you knew that right? Does a tC?

jmiller20874

Easy dude, I was just playing. No harm, no foul. Every Z28/Camaro/Firebird/whatever is notorious for having the rear-end break loose in the rain under very moderate acceleration, that's all.