HyperZ

I've been having this issue for a few weeks now and I want to take it in to the dealer, but I don't want to deal with paying $90 for a diagnostic and then having them tell me they want to charge me outside of warranty for repairs. I went through some crap with another dealer locally not long ago because they wanted to charge me over $700 in repairs and parts on top of the diagnostic fee and later find out that the problem was just a bad fuse (you would think a $90 diagnostic for an electrical problem would include checking fuses). It sucks because I bought a new car so I wouldn't have to deal with cost of repairs and the dealers ask stupid crap like "have you serviced the car regularly? oh you did it yourself? no we have no proof... it's outside of warranty." Get out.

Anyway, if this can be fixed by myself then I will just do it, but I don't know if I have a blown gasket or what. I changed my engine oil a few weeks ago but the problem was before that... when I changed the oil though I suspected a leak of fresh motor oil along the edge of the seal on the engine head after I let the car idle a while to check for leaks under the car.

Let me describe the problem now... on a cold start, I can tell the car starts up abnormally by the sound it makes once it starts up. It's a loud clacking/rattling noise, which can then be heard again when I start moving... first, second, third gear, if RPMs are low.

I don't know if this is related to the HO alternator I installed but it had been on there for a while before this started happening. I know the alternator makes the car idle a lot lower than normal (to the point where if the stereo, amps and A/C are on, it'll stutter at idle). Not sure if increasing idle speed will fix this, but it may be worth a shot, though I don't know how to modify the cable. Not sure if an ECU reset will fix this, but I can try that too.

Otherwise, anyone have any ideas on what could be the problem. I've seen that other people have had this problem, but I don't like it. It's not normal and the car only has 20k miles on it, which is pretty damn good for a 2005. 20k in 2.5 years... the hardest I drive the car is speeding up to get on the highway.

Thanks.

Amoxaphobic

Does it kind of sound like a spark? And you said that it only happens at cold start? How long do you run the engine before it goes away? Have you tried to just let the engine idle for a few minutes, or do you drive it and then it goes away?

HyperZ

It sounds like the pistons are hitting tin cans... meh, nah more like a metal gargle. It's a slightly hollow, metallic kind of low-pitched clanking noise. It's like a tap except it has a slight ring to it. Or for another explanation with people more familiar with Toyota cars, it simply sounds like and old Toyota does off the line. A very audible engine or transmission noise.

It is definitely related to engine temperature. If I let the car sit idle for five minutes, it's usually fine. If I just do like I normally do, turn the car on, turn my tunes on and pick a song I wanna listen to (could be a two minute affair), I will hear this noise.

Once I drive the car around for five minutes, the noise is gone. It is most noticeable in lower gears, but that is also mostly because the car is more likely to dip into lower RPMs in 1st, 2nd or 3rd. But, if I purposefully switch it to 4th or 5th doing 20mph, I can get the RPMs to dip low enough to hear the noise.

I was just going to say forget it and just warm my engine up enough before driving the car, but then again this could be a signal of problems later on. Or I may just replace the tranny fluid with synthetic to rule that out. I don't think I'm particularly hard on the transmission, but who knows. It is my first manual car.

zettahertz

i have the same problem too. It seems like mine's coming from the left side of the engine. It's either from the belts or something in the engine... O_O It disappears after warming up after like a minute though. It appears when I put the car into gear either R/D when it's cold, but sounds perfectly fine when it's in P. And i think it occurs depending on how cold it is outside, the colder, the louder the tapping sound.

HyperZ

Yeah, that sounds just like mine. Same side of the engine and all (you're talking left as in belts side right?). It's hard to diagnose where it's coming from 'cause it isn't very apparent when the car is not in gear or the clutch is disengaged. It's most apparent when I start moving at a slow roll, let the clutch fully engage and then press on the gas to move forward.

I tried resetting the ECU and the idles are a little better. Hard to get the ECU to configure that one perfectly. Still the same.

How many miles do you have on your car, zetta?

I'm stumped. The way the noise is, it makes me think it has something to do with the exhaust manifold because of the hollow sound... the manifold cover has that kind of a timbre to it. I don't know... also sounds maybe like engine mounts? Umm... if it goes away after warming up though it makes me think it's a lubrication issue. But I use Mobil1 synthetic motor oil and change every 5k miles or less. I do notice some slight gunk buildup around the seals though, which is a little strange for a new car that shouldn't be leaking any oil, but the oil is never depleted much at all that I can tell from the dipstick. Only other oil that might be low or used up is tranny oil. I don't think we have a dipstick with that though, do we?

I have a manual tranny.

giftednimrod

90 dollar diagnostic or possible long term damage to your engine...

seems like the right choice should be logical.

HyperZ

Awww... I see a reply to this thread in my e-mail and it's not even very productive.

I just don't trust dealers around here. I don't have $90 rip-me-off money right now to give to them. I got stuck with a $90 diagnostic charge from Toyota of North Hollywood in Cali because they said I needed $720 in parts and labor and I figured out on my own that there was a bad fuse. This was after the $90 for the dealer, and the money I spent buying new parts on the assumption that they weren't lying to me about what was wrong with the car. Brand new battery, brand new alternator and all it took was a fuse.

I bought a new car so I can have everything under warranty, but every freaking dealer in soCal is shady as hell when it comes to service. So, since I figured the solution to my problem last time, I want to see on here (which is what forums are for if you forgot) if anyone else was/had the same problem and had anything done about it.

I'm just the kind of informed consumer that likes knowing about things like this so that he can know what to do about them or at the very least, know what to go into the service department with so I don't get bamboozled. THANKS!

Amoxaphobic

Wel, from what you have described, I am going to guess that it might be your idler pulley. You might want to get that looked at from a specialist. The dealer might be your best bet because that it surely covered in the warranty.

Oh, and because you are so wary of going to the dealer, you know, your warranty is good through Toyota... meaning that you can go to any Scion dealer. If that would make you feel better.

HyperZ

If it is then I'm sure they won't cover it under warranty. The alternator I bought to replace the one I was told was toast is a HO alternator with an overdrive pulley on it to allow it to generate at least 100A or so at idle.

Meh... kinda sucks 'cause it won't be covered under warranty but the only reason I replaced it was because lied to me about the problem in the first place.

Amoxaphobic

The pulley I am talking about is not the alternator overdrive pulley.

HyperZ

Alright. It's not the tensioner pulley is it? I'm sure that one was moved around some when removing and installing the new alt.

Anyway, I don't want to touch the engine parts so I guess I'll just take it to the dealer near where I work and see what they say. I guess if it isn't covered under warranty whatever it may be, at least I'll figure out what it is. I just wanted to see if anyone else had the problem and knew what the problem was before putting my money down the tube.

Thanks.

zettahertz

yeah, mine's coming from the pulley/passenger side of the engine too... And I also have done something to the pulleys and have changed it to the NST underdrive + accessories. I have 67.5K miles and had the pulleys since around 40K miles. And this tapping started about a month ago.

The hard part about diagnosing this is that I'd probably have to leave the car at the place overnight. Mine only occurs the first time I turn on the car in the day on a VERY cold start. It has something to do with the cold temperature cycle of night/day. If i turned it on in the morning (I'd hear the sound), and drive it anytime later that day it'd be fine w/o any sound. But if i turn it on the next day anytime after the car sits outside overnight on a cold night, it'd have that strange tapping sound again. If i leave my car in the garage, little to no sound. weird. I think it has something to do w/ the belt/pulley area, dunno exactly what.

Amoxaphobic

Yeah, I believe that it's the tension pulley. But what you and I have in mind when I say that may be different. I think the part is usually like $75 and if you can change the belt, then you can change that pulley. But, I haven't gotten one for this car so I am not sure on the price.

Anyways, if you take it in, please let us know what they say it is and if you got it fixed.

boostaddict

it maybe eaisier to have some stand out with the hood open to pinpoint the noise...heatshield have you touched anythin in the engine bay that my have come alil lose. you will be suprised on where just alittle loose can do...if all fails take it to the dealer...or im sure you and a couple friends can somewhat pin point it...

mengsta

WAs wondering if i could get an update to this thread?lol seems interesting and i may have this problem too. Couple weeks ago i took my tc to santa cruz in cali. at midnight full of friends. Amazingly the idiot came out of me and i shifted into 2nd going around maybe 40-43 mph . i was in 5th slowing down, meant to go 4th. Beleive me ive driven a stick for years and if u wanna punk me go ahead lol. Of course i dint ride it out , right wen i noticed i clutched back in. besides i read that 2nd's max was 45 anyway? well to not change topics.. RIGHT after that incident i also got rattling or tapping from the left side. Car felt slower , or it could be 5 ppl in a car going uphill... but anyway the sound was definitely there. Also you bought up going 20mph in 5th gear? dont even worry about that, you should expect something more like yur lugging the engine sound... i did that with 5 people in my old integra. WEll i would like to hear the news if you went to the dealer or not? and my tapping actually just stopped yesterday. So if any1 would share any input on me shifting to 2nd gear at 40, that would be nice. becuase if it is bad i wouldnt mind bringning it down to the dealer and have them check it.

trdmaster

u know what, i have the same problem

when its a cold engine, it makes that noise, but only when its cold, i have all 3 pulleys on my car as well and the problem started before i had them, the noise only got louder once i installed my alt. pulley from NST

ESEMRFOZZ13

mine would rattle at start up, it was a broken intake bracket where the motor mount is, so my intake would hit the fender. i reinforced the bracket and that was it. cant see your car so just a thought minus $90

trdmaster

no its not my intake, this sound isnt coming from that, i checked, its sounds like its coming from the belt area, almost from the engine itself, it sort of sounds like a knocking piston

mengsta

yeah thats what exactly i had, sounded like i bent my valves. have u tried resetting the ECU? only takes a minute to do lol. that might help

trdmaster

yea i must have done that so many times

i cant figure out what it is but when i get the time im going to the dealer