Necromancer

I am thinking about adding one or the other (if the supercharger ever does get released). I know there are turbokits already available ranging from around $2000-$6000 (for a stage 3 and around 400 hp). The supercharger on the other hand offers around 200 hp and warranteed performance. But, based on performance, engine wear, unnecessary loudness (inside and outside the car), and value, which choice do you guys prefer?

jrv2000

first of all we dont know much about either of these products, because no one has had a chance to put them on their car. For more info, I would suggest searching under turbo vs supercharger b/c this exact topic has been heavily debated over and over and over and over and over and over and over............

Otocan

three words....

"warranty"

and "locked thread"

franktherank

turbo for manuals, super for autos

neuromonic

This has been done to death.

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...o+supercharger
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...o+supercharger
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...o+supercharger
and the list goes on and on. ...


It sounds cliche to say, "do a search, noob!", but this stuff has been talked about to death! It's starting to feel like there are the same three posts over and over again in the tC power forum.

1. "How much power from which cold air intake?!"
2. "Why isn't the supercharger here?!"
3. "Should I supercharge or turbo charge?!"

davo345

turbo will usually always win in the end due to efficiency and less power loss(sc's are belt driven, turbo exhaust driven)

neuromonic

That's a BS statement. SC's involve a parasitic loss, that's true, but what about the backpressure caused by a turbo? Would you rather have a centrifugal SC operating at 9psi or a turbo running at 5? Why don't top fuel dragsters run turbo's, how come they are all supercharged? hrm?

I love when people pull uneducated blanket statments out of their ___.

dex

maybe you should educate yourself. top fuel dragsters use superchargers because turbos have been banned. it takes a good 400 hp just to drive the blowers on those dragsters. turbos have been banned from just about every form of motorsports because of the power they can make. back in the haydays of F1 they had 1500hp turbocharged 1.5 liter engines...b4 they were banned. and as far as backpressure goes...they have a little thing called a wastegate that reroutes excess exhuast gasses. so the backpressure created is not much more if any than any normal exhaust system. the only advantage anyone will give to a supercharger is virtually lagless spoolup. which is being reduced alot in turbos with newer materials and better bearings. the only benefit to getting a TRD supercharger is the warrenty.

davo345

Thank you for clearing that up for our friend neuromonic.

ScoobyVan

TeamMightyMiniz

here's something

Supercharged Honda Civic Motor 300hp
Second Fastest car according to TopGear
Faster than a Carrera GT
Believe it

neuromonic

Oh Noes!?! I've been pwned?!

Grow up kids. I feel like I'm in a Honda fourm.

Turbochargers and superchargers both have their place, but making blanket statements like you did are both innacurate and irresponsible. "turbo will usually always win in the end due to efficiency and less power loss?(sc's are belt driven, turbo exhaust driven) " Give me a break. There are many reasons to pick a turbocharger over a supercharger, but parasitic drag is not one of them. Thermal efficiency, perhaps, but parasitic drag has nothing to do with that.

But of course you know that.

BTW, a wastegate doesn't "fix" any loss in backpressure, and its not supposed to. A wastegates purpose is to provide an auxilliuary exaust path for controlling boost, not to releave any backpressure. If it did, it would kind of defeat the purpose of putting that big turbine in the path of the exaust, you know?

rotarycolt

Parasitic drag is definately a reason. Superchargers, particularly roots and twin screw, use a substantial amount of power to be spun. Obviously this means that the power made is negated by the power used... on top of this, they create a TON of heat.

Of course there are more variables, but Turbo's are the most efficient supercharger there is... thermally and otherwise. Also, any half-wit should know that wastegate is not present to control backpressure, but to redirect exhaust flow to control the boost pressure it creates. LOL

neuromonic

They sure do. But do "turbo's always win" like Davo suggested in his misguided post?

I say no, they don't.

For one, the drive-line loss on a centrifical SC (like the Vortech unit TRD is going to release) is much less significant than a fixed-displacement blower like the Roots and Twin-screw you are talking about. Also the thermal efficiency is a hell of a lot better. And we all know in these turbo vs. supercharger threads what supercharger everybody is talking about. It's not a roots. Or a twin-screw.

Yes turbo's offer a theoretical advantage, but they aren't the best supercharger for every application.

engifineer

300HP second fastest motor... am I reading something wrong or are you on crack ? And a civic motor will NEVER be the second fastest motor... I dont care what you do to it!!!!

dex

aight lets make more blanket statements. if you refer back to my post i did correctly state that wastegates reroute excess exhaust gasses...just like you felt the need to repeat. i did not imply that it was used to control backpressure but that there isnt some wall the exhaust gasses are up against. saying a parasitic loss isnt a good reason to make a decision on setups is just asinine. if you are limited to run a bar of boost on your motor setup and you have to choose, why would you pick the one thats gunna give you 10% less power? and like i said before, the only benefit to superchargers is instantanious boost. i have yet to hear from you or anyone else of anything besides this to make em better than turbos.

heres a good read on how turbos work and why backpressure isnt an issue.
http://www.turboclub.com/turbotech/TurboFun1.htm

jrv2000

Actually, I was downloading some more Top Gear episodes, and the second fastest car on their private test track totem pole is actually a 2 liter inline 4 honda Si motor I believe. The car is the Areil Atom, and I think that the only car that the stig got around the track faster was the enzo. You can check it out here http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/, its a very cool car if you can call it a car.
http://www.openwheelers.com.au/video...ll_segment.mpg

mrbridge

Looks like a death trap...

Sign me up, twice!

TeamMightyMiniz

Did I say MOTOR??

TeamMightyMiniz

Thanks jrv2000
That is a wicked fast car. Under $20k or was it Euro/Pounds?

Anyhow, seems like the best bang for your $ and it's streetable.

it doesn't look like a deathtrap to me, the whole thing is a freakin cage. Probablly safer than a Scion.

and it's a simple supercharged 300hp.

I'd buy one