ZPIracing Lightweight Pulley vs. NST Underdrive Pulley....
04-04-2008, 01:52 PM
#122
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Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
That's precisely it. Fluid Dampr makes lightweight dampened pulleys. They weight a little more than straight up light weight pulleys but they're there for performance and longevity.
THansenite, it's been said before, no one has enough miles to fully realize the extent of the effect light weight pulleys have on the 2AZ. For many, it's not a problem since they don't plan on keeping the car for longer than 50,000 miles. The engine may last longer. Hell, the engine may not even be affected by the pulley! But I'm waiting for a car with a light pulley to hit 120,000 miles before I'm putting one on mine. Simply, I'm not going to risk it.
Consider the X Ray. When the first X ray machines came out, there were a few who thought it might be dangerous but it was such a useful tool in medicine that it was disregarded. A little time later, cancer.
If you don't believe me, Believe lo_bux_racer:
(BTW, I strongly suggest reading the links that Lance provides)
THansenite, it's been said before, no one has enough miles to fully realize the extent of the effect light weight pulleys have on the 2AZ. For many, it's not a problem since they don't plan on keeping the car for longer than 50,000 miles. The engine may last longer. Hell, the engine may not even be affected by the pulley! But I'm waiting for a car with a light pulley to hit 120,000 miles before I'm putting one on mine. Simply, I'm not going to risk it.
Consider the X Ray. When the first X ray machines came out, there were a few who thought it might be dangerous but it was such a useful tool in medicine that it was disregarded. A little time later, cancer.
If you don't believe me, Believe lo_bux_racer:
(BTW, I strongly suggest reading the links that Lance provides)
Originally Posted by lo_bux_racer
Start here.Then click here. Then click here for information directly from Toyota, the guys who designed your car and engine.
Shawn Baumgartner (owner of Unorthodox Racing) will NEVER tell you there is any danger to his product. I have argued with him in the past about this, he is an idiot. He also will not pay for your engine repairs, he only warrants his crank pulley for manufacturing defects. He does NOT warrant any incidental or consequential damages, and has not paid any claims for damage attributed to his product because his warranty is very specific.
Ask Guillermo Polo, Michael Gaari, Lance at Toyomoto in Miami, and a host of other Supra owners what happens when you remove your harmonic damper and replace it with a UR pulley. Flexplate bolts back out. Crank position wheels break and rotate so the engine either won't start at all, or will fail intermittently while driving. Rod and main bearings show unusual wear patterns. And a host of other wonderful things.
I realize you don't understand the physics. Here's what I can tell you for sure: your oil pump is chain driven. Chains do not like shock loads. Removing the damper increases the shock loading on both the oil pump chain and the cam chain. One (or both) will break prematurely. If they were belt driven, it would be no issue, but they are not belt driven, so they will likely be the first casualties from removing the damper.
The flywheel change has NO negative effects. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nil. It will not void your warranty, but I guarantee you, the UR pulley will because Toyota will show up in court with the same documentation I've linked here and you'll be screwed. It is a BAD mod, and should not be recommended by any reputable engine builder. NO domestic engine builder would ever recommend removing a torsional damper and replacing it with a solid pulley. They know all too well what will happen to a cast crank without a damper: it will break, without any doubt. This is why Fluidamper, ATI, and TCI have a booming business with domestic engines. It is not only bad physics, but it is also bad business to replace a damper with a solid pulley.
Shawn Baumgartner (owner of Unorthodox Racing) will NEVER tell you there is any danger to his product. I have argued with him in the past about this, he is an idiot. He also will not pay for your engine repairs, he only warrants his crank pulley for manufacturing defects. He does NOT warrant any incidental or consequential damages, and has not paid any claims for damage attributed to his product because his warranty is very specific.
Ask Guillermo Polo, Michael Gaari, Lance at Toyomoto in Miami, and a host of other Supra owners what happens when you remove your harmonic damper and replace it with a UR pulley. Flexplate bolts back out. Crank position wheels break and rotate so the engine either won't start at all, or will fail intermittently while driving. Rod and main bearings show unusual wear patterns. And a host of other wonderful things.
I realize you don't understand the physics. Here's what I can tell you for sure: your oil pump is chain driven. Chains do not like shock loads. Removing the damper increases the shock loading on both the oil pump chain and the cam chain. One (or both) will break prematurely. If they were belt driven, it would be no issue, but they are not belt driven, so they will likely be the first casualties from removing the damper.
The flywheel change has NO negative effects. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nil. It will not void your warranty, but I guarantee you, the UR pulley will because Toyota will show up in court with the same documentation I've linked here and you'll be screwed. It is a BAD mod, and should not be recommended by any reputable engine builder. NO domestic engine builder would ever recommend removing a torsional damper and replacing it with a solid pulley. They know all too well what will happen to a cast crank without a damper: it will break, without any doubt. This is why Fluidamper, ATI, and TCI have a booming business with domestic engines. It is not only bad physics, but it is also bad business to replace a damper with a solid pulley.
I remember a chat I had with Mike a while back. When he first introduced his pulleys, people said that there would be problems as soon as people put them on their cars. There weren't any problems so the nay-sayers said, "just wait till you get 5,000 miles on it, then you'll have problems". At 5k, still no problems. People kept saying higher and higher mileages. Now, you are saying 120k. There are cars with 120k miles, NST pulley, and no problems.
Maybe you should say that you want to see a tC with 300,000 miles on it with a crank pulley. That way, when the engine starts to die of old age, you can blame the pulleys. The fact is that you will be hard pressed to find ANY issues with NST's pulleys, be it product quality or affects on engine longevity.
People can keep saying that there will be a problem with the pulleys, then blame the pulley if something happens to an engine, even if it isn't the case. Personally, NST has proven their quality and knowledge in this industry with their track record. That is why I am trusting my engine to Mike and his staff that produce NST's amazing pulleys.
04-05-2008, 02:21 AM
#123
Originally Posted by jblaze4lif
nst ... do you have any statistics of say 0 to 60 mph times stock vs with underdrive pulleys or 1/4 mile times with and without ....
Most customers with an NST set will see improvements of roughly .2 sec in the 1/4 mile...
Specs, weights, benefits found here...
http://www.nonstoptuning.com/pKitToySciTC.htm
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