TJKASS

You can drill and tap spots for the TC mounts in the camry E351. Bolts up to engine just fine. I would know, i have a 351 sitting in my garage right now. It spent this summer hooked up to my car. It would be on right now but once I took it apart to install the LSD, it took my local dealership forever to get my install kit in, so I rebuilt it with the old main shaft nut and wiretied it inplace. Temp solution and seems to be holding together just fine, but didnt want it in my car once I had to start relying on it on a daily basis so I put the stock tranny back on and im trying to get up the courage to go out into the cold and tear the 351 down again to rebuild it with my install kit (finally in). IDK if i will though before I finish getting my cams in and tune. shooting for 200whp NA now instead of the supercharged route. But will still want the longer gears and the LSD once I get there. And yes, all internals swap over perfectly just check preload on the diff bearings and shim accordingly. Any more questions just let me know. Ive played with and opened 350As, 350Bs, 351s (with the later gearset 3.94 final drive), 351s (with the earlier v6 gearing 3.625 final drive) (talk about a high speed tranny, gearing with a 7k redline nets you 218mph in 5th), and the MR2 E153 with factory LSD.

Guru

That is kinda funny. Wife got my old EVO X so her Tc is getting sold. I got an R35.

Guru

My concern isn't the interchangability which I'm sure will be fine with the internals. It's with the speedo accuracy with the new FD gear. How does the ECU grab the signal? Is there a speedo gear that needs to be swapped as well?

TJKASS

(EDIT) Thanks to elevation tc for pointing this out. The tC does have a plastic speedo drive gear on the diff housing but it is not connected to a sensor as our cars grab their speed from the EBD/ABS wheel speed sensors. The one I was thinking about is what comes with the E351, as the camry does infact use the signal from the speedo drive gear. So when you purchase a camry transmission, if you see that sender, it does not matter for our cars, you can either leave it in there unplugged or swap it with a block out plate. My apologies for confusing the 350 and 351 there for a second.(/EDIT)


Yes there is a plastic spedo drive gear that sits on one end of the differential, inside of the bearing, however, because thats mounted to the differential itself it will spin at a set speed no matter what gear ratio the differential is in relation to the transmission. Basically the answer is no you do not have to change it out because its the same size as the tCs and is mounted to the portion of the differential on a point rotationally equivalent to the axles. I can get a picture for you in the morning if you want to see, as ive got a 351 differential chilling in my garage at the moment.

TJKASS

(EDIT) This is only if you were like me and got the speedo sensor loom with your transmission and installed it in your car for later use (/EDIT)

ECU grabs a pulse frequency signal off the spedo drive gear, look on the bottom of your transmission near the back of it, youll see a sensor and a wire leaving the case, the sensor should be about a finger sized protrusion from the case perpendicular to the half shaft. Thats the sender.

t_urbo_C_harged

Just purchased the LSD. Next is the e351 aka camry transmission. Do you have any more info on the internals of the old e351? Are those internals interchangable with the new e351/350?

ElevationTC

Are you high?

There is no plastic speedo gear on a e350

TCpete

lulz... that i can confirm... and ive rebuilt 2 of them form the ground up

t_urbo_C_harged

LSD arrives tomorrow! Ahhh! I'm excited. TCpete, what final drive are you using? JW

ElevationTC

That guy talked a good game though He almost had me conviced and ive built like 4 tc trannys LMAO!

TJKASS

PETE, there is a plastic spedo drive gear, heres some pics I just took from my phone out in my garage off of my dissasembled 351. And ive also got pics of the spedo sender, and how it interfaces with the spedo drive gear. the drive gear is the black one right inside of the differential bearing.
Heres pics to vindicate me.

SPEDOMETER SENSOR DRIVE GEAR, INBOARD OF DIFFERENTIAL BEARING AND DEF PLASTIC
ANOTHER PIC TO SHOW ITS LOCATION ON THE DIFFFERENTIAL HOUSING
THIRD PIC FOR EVEN MORE CLARIFICATION
THE SENDER, that screw you see holds it into the transmission, that oring prevents fluid leak, and just beyond the picture is the plug for the electrical cords that sends the signal back to the ECU. The gear on the tip is also plastic (delron).
This is what the two look like together when the transmission is assembled they interface as such, and because its a pulse frequency signal it doesnt matter which way the diff is spinning, the ECU will always read it as a positive value (hence your spedo not going below 0mph when you reverse)

Im guessing you were thinking of something different pete.

TJKASS

Actually, just for the record, the sender in that picture is the one from my tC, the one from the E351 is in my transmission (350 is back on the car) right now cuz after I put the camry transmission in and went to take it back off, I couldnt get the electrical plug to unplug from the sender on the 351 so I just unbolted it from the case and pulled the 350s as well and switched em out. No problems so far. And yes, my LSD in sitting in my 350 right now on the car, I rebuilt the 351 differential so that I wouldnt lose the parts (no I didnt reshim it, ill do that later, and just a hint, remember to heat the diff bearings before pressing them, especially in the winter, helps with the fitment sooo much. Switching the diff is actually what ive been up to this week along with finishing up my brakes.

So ppl please dont completely rip my ***** off when im working on the darn thing right now.

TJKASS

Oh and looking through my tC shop repair manuals (straight from toyota, which i used to dissasemble both transmissions), under the Differential case assembly folder, the componenets PDF clearly shows the item, and it is specifically named "SPEEDOMETER DRIVE (MTM) GEAR" so my apologies but I guess you guys werent building E350s. Or maybe you have defective ones with no speedometers.

ElevationTC

https://www.scionlife.com/tech/manual/?manual=tc05_1036

Yes its true the scion tc diff does have that, but on the scion tc it does not get speed sense from the trans! The only plug that goes to the scion tc manual transmission is for the reverse gear!

Maybe all the the transmissions your working on, do not belong to scion tc's!

TJKASS

Correctamundo! im getting ppl to do research on this forum, woot!
It does get the signal from the ABS wheel speed sensors, even more of a plus for those wanting to do a transmission swap, after doing some wire tracing of my own, the harness that is in my car that hooks to the speedo sensor I have in my transmission is one that I took with the transmission when I plundered it from an 05 camry. Thought it would come in handy if I wanted to feed a piggyback or full EMS a clean speed signal later on down the road (boost controlled by gear etc). After doing some wire tracing this morning I rediscovered this fact, and yes I do agree elevation, it should be a plugged hole on the 350 case, not a sender, the sender I have in there is the 351 sender, and the sender in those pics mustve been from my other 351 or a 153. Yes, I ran the loom that I cut with the 351 through the firewall and into the glovebox when I put the 351 back in in the summer and forgot about it, and when I went to go put this transmission back on I thought it meant something so I was sure to reinclude it. Really I dropped my glovebox and sure enough Ive just got a couple loose ended wires in there

SO TO SUM THIS ALL UP. (AKA NEWB VERSION)

YES THE 350 has a drive gear on the diff,
NO The 350 does not have a sensor to read off of said drive gear,
YES the tC gets its speed from the ABS/EBD system,
YES Ive been working on a couple of toyota transmissions not just the tCs
and YES i do get slightly disorganized at times,
and
YES the fact that the tC uses the EBD system is a good thing because it means swapping transmissions should be even less of a concern as you dont have to worry about the speedometer drive gear. (unless youre like me and want it to send a signal to a piggyback without using the IE2 signal)

TJKASS

Now that this question is resolved, any other ones on the 351 case? or camry swap in general?

TJKASS

Oh and sorry for not answering you t urbo C harged, to be honest I do not remember exactly what the differences are between the old 351 and the new 351 as far as interchangeability goes. I dont have one on me right now to go look at but for some reason I believe the bellhousing on the old 351 is missing a few holes (or theyre misplaced) to properly mount up to out block. Personally Id say dont go for the old 351 as theyre relatively hard to find now days and the change in ratios is not really worth it, no one needs to go 200+ in their tC, itll probably just explode by that point anyway. If youre still interested in the old 351 tho pm me and ill dig through some old camry service manuals of mine and try to check on the differences more closely. just dont get your hopes up is all.

t_urbo_C_harged

I planned on just doing the 02+ final drive swap, just thought what you said sounded interesting and was seeing what you had to say about it. I will just do the final drive swap for now, and maybe change 5th gear as well (although I like how the tC's 5th is pretty close ratio wise to 4th). I am not going to swap the whole camry unit in, I am just going to interchange the ring gear and the shaft splined to it (output shaft). Just got my TRD LSD today, woot!

ElevationTC

Make sure you also check and make sure the shims for the bearings are correct when swapping final gears bud!


TJKASS, No harm no foul Just wanted everyone on the same page! Sorry i come off as an ___ sometimes bad trait i guess . Either way thanks for sharring the info! Also when running a standalone which ive done it still piggybacks for databus retention with the oem ecu, which still allows you to use abs provided speed sense!

Any pics of the the holes you had to drill?

TJKASS

To tell you the truth that case is still dissasembled right now and sitting in trashbags in my garage so I could take some pics but I cant tell which are old and which are new. and I completely understand, I agree, no harm no foul, and thanks correcting my pile of info. And about the speed signal, good to know, I know I had a good reason to put it in there, I just do not remember it at the moment.

turboCharged, that sounds like a great idea, like elevation said, remember proper shims on the diff bearings, or you will chew up the bearings and the ring gear pretty fast.

Me personally, I almost want to keep the 4.24 and gears 1-4, and just swap over the .731 5th gear. that would be a beast in an NA tranny.

Oh and heres some good info!!!!! (took me a while to find this)

E350 ratios Speeds with stock redline (6250) and on a 235/40/18

FD-4.24
1st-3.538 32mph
2nd-2.045 55mph
3rd-1.333 84mph
4th-.972 116mph
5th-.775 145mph

E351 ratios

FD-3.944
1st-3.538 34mph
2nd-2.045 59mph
3rd-1.333 91mph
4th-.972 124mph
5th-.731 165mph

My franken-350 and with a 7250 redline (ALSO THE 2AZ Corolla XRS Features these ratios from factory for those wanting a P&P swap)

FD-4.24
1st-3.538 38mph
2nd-2.045 65mph
3rd-1.333 98mph
4th-.972 134mph
5th-.731 178mph
Cruising at 70mph - 2800 RPM (exactly what Ive always wanted our tranny to be)

turboCharged's franken-351 w/stock limiter

34mph, 60mph, 91mph, 124mph, 156mph
Cruising at 70mph -2850 RPM


And just to give you big turbo guys some wet dreams...

351 w/ a 7250 redline and some 255/40/18

41mph, 70mph, 108mph, 147mph, 196mph. ENJOY!
Cruising at 70mph (well you could do it in second but heres the value for 5th ) - 2650RPM


WOOT!