Buyers Guide: Scion tC Fuel + ECU
10-14-2005, 12:30 AM
#22
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the trd flash consist of a complete ecu remapping including air/fuel ratio, injector pulse, cam timing and vvvti control. It basically turns the car into aforcedinduction car with a forced induction minded computer, instead of an N/A computer with a forced induction bolt on, this is what creats cleaner emmissions, better fuel economy, more stable of a power band, no spikes, and a more efficient running supercharger.
I know i will be running the HKS SSQBOV on the supercharger because its a multi stage BOV and does not dump into the atmosphere and create bogging on MAF cars.
this is a wonderful topic BTW
I know i will be running the HKS SSQBOV on the supercharger because its a multi stage BOV and does not dump into the atmosphere and create bogging on MAF cars.
this is a wonderful topic BTW
10-14-2005, 12:41 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by OutCrnrU
I know i will be running the HKS SSQBOV on the supercharger because its a multi stage BOV and does not dump into the atmosphere and create bogging on MAF cars.
10-14-2005, 02:30 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
How do you know this?
10-14-2005, 03:20 AM
#26
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First the tC ECU is smart and it has learning capabilities if you try to work against the ECU it will shut you down time after time. It seems that others trying to develop a kit are experiencing this now. We do run with engine management...this is not to say that we have not done other items in the design to ensure reliability.
It is not a Honda you can not slap a turbo on it and expect it to work. We have done a lot of research and hard work to make the kit what it is. We fried ecu, we melted some plastic, fried a few turbos....this is called R&D. The only way to master a brand new platform is simply try and retry. Then when you think in all works you put a few on the road for a few months to see how they do and make design adjustments to finalize a bolt on kit that will provide trouble free operation.
The car does have 370cc in it... The car does have a factory wideband, the car can idle with a open atmosphere BOV, The fuel rail can support 720cc injectors, the factory pump can flow enough for 550cc injectors. The factory maf can be calibrated with larger intake pipe.
These are facts....I would say we more experience on taking these cars apart and making stuff work than anyone. You want proof ask any of the number of people on this board with our parts and kits.
I am not trying to get into a ____ing match but there is no need to question someone’s thoughts or impressions. We are all in this together...this is the beauty of a new car we all are learning as we go. We know a lot but that is not to say that we do not learn more everyday. Hell we just took apart our first 2az block last week. We will all learn more over the next few years and anyone who disagrees is full of sh!!
It is not a Honda you can not slap a turbo on it and expect it to work. We have done a lot of research and hard work to make the kit what it is. We fried ecu, we melted some plastic, fried a few turbos....this is called R&D. The only way to master a brand new platform is simply try and retry. Then when you think in all works you put a few on the road for a few months to see how they do and make design adjustments to finalize a bolt on kit that will provide trouble free operation.
The car does have 370cc in it... The car does have a factory wideband, the car can idle with a open atmosphere BOV, The fuel rail can support 720cc injectors, the factory pump can flow enough for 550cc injectors. The factory maf can be calibrated with larger intake pipe.
These are facts....I would say we more experience on taking these cars apart and making stuff work than anyone. You want proof ask any of the number of people on this board with our parts and kits.
I am not trying to get into a ____ing match but there is no need to question someone’s thoughts or impressions. We are all in this together...this is the beauty of a new car we all are learning as we go. We know a lot but that is not to say that we do not learn more everyday. Hell we just took apart our first 2az block last week. We will all learn more over the next few years and anyone who disagrees is full of sh!!
10-14-2005, 04:16 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by OutCrnrU
Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
How do you know this?
Originally Posted by OutCrnrU
the trd flash consist of a complete ecu remapping including air/fuel ratio, injector pulse, cam timing and vvvti control. It basically turns the car into aforcedinduction car with a forced induction minded computer, instead of an N/A computer with a forced induction bolt on, this is what creats cleaner emmissions, better fuel economy, more stable of a power band, no spikes, and a more efficient running supercharger.
10-14-2005, 05:09 AM
#28
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Re: What we know about TC fuel Management and the ECU
Originally Posted by jdaniels
Where did you get the 372cc measurement for the stock injectors, that's huge. I would think they are much closer to 310-320cc. I am quite sure that the tC doesn't use a wideband o2 sensor either, those are reserved for lean-burn fuel economy based cars for zero-emissions.
The ZPI stage 0 cannot be without management, it has to have something. I am guessing it uses some sort of rising rate FPR or another type of hack, the stock ECU isn't capable of safely adjusting fuel for that much boost. Maybe 1-2lbs, but not 6lbs.
The ZPI stage 0 cannot be without management, it has to have something. I am guessing it uses some sort of rising rate FPR or another type of hack, the stock ECU isn't capable of safely adjusting fuel for that much boost. Maybe 1-2lbs, but not 6lbs.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10...
How can you spout off like that.
You didn't got one statement correct. You ABSOULTLY shot yourself in the foot in-fact!Injector size... You're wrong.
Wideband... hmmm wrong again.
ZPI Stage 0 having fuel management... 0 for 3 so far!
Stock ECU only capable of adjusting for 1 - 2 lbs... There are 10 PSI kits running larger injectors on stock ECU (not saying that's the best way, just saying that it works!)
Please watch what you say, there are many people that might believe what you wrote and that would be sad... just sad.
10-14-2005, 05:12 AM
#29
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OutCrnrU
You dont use BOV's on a s/c
because it doesnt release all the air at once it releases it sequentially thus keeping air flowing through the maf at a regular rate.
You dont use BOV's on a s/c
10-14-2005, 05:28 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
:D
Yes you do! They're mostly internal though - if exists at all. Arguably, you might need a BOV more so on a s/c than on a turbo although the arguments for it escape me for now.
Yes you do! They're mostly internal though - if exists at all. Arguably, you might need a BOV more so on a s/c than on a turbo although the arguments for it escape me for now.
10-14-2005, 06:05 AM
#32
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I thought that as well but I'm not sure about whether or not that's true. I imagine the velocity and momentum of the turbine would keep the compressor spinning up more boost than the supercharger.
If the turbine and compressor were heavy enough to slow down by several thousand rpm than it would be an impossible turbo lagging system. Since the turbos used have ball bearings, there's even less friction.
In anycase, most superchargers have internal BOVs that basically replace the internal waste gate on a turbo.
If the turbine and compressor were heavy enough to slow down by several thousand rpm than it would be an impossible turbo lagging system. Since the turbos used have ball bearings, there's even less friction.
In anycase, most superchargers have internal BOVs that basically replace the internal waste gate on a turbo.
10-14-2005, 07:51 AM
#33
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Re: What we know about TC fuel Management and the ECU
Originally Posted by jdaniels
I am quite sure that the tC doesn't use a wideband o2 sensor either, those are reserved for lean-burn fuel economy based cars for zero-emissions.
This guy sure is stupid. Reserved for lean-burn fuel economy car. lol
10-14-2005, 02:22 PM
#35
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when you recirculate a bov back into the piping it is measured, it already has been measured before it reached the turbo and way before it got to the bov. thats why its put back into the piping. so that the air that was already measured isnt all of a sudden missing. i really dont want to see this thread go into the shi*er because people come in here wanting to call people out and start ____ing matches
10-14-2005, 06:54 PM
#36
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Please keep this thread productive, if you have to disagree with someone, make sure to do it tactfully and back up your opinion with facts. I would hate to lose the knowledge contained within this thread
With that said.
Great thread ScionDad.
Great information from all of the participants. Thank you
With that said.
Great thread ScionDad.
Great information from all of the participants. Thank you
10-14-2005, 08:13 PM
#37
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Re: What we know about TC fuel Management and the ECU
Originally Posted by GODLESS
Originally Posted by jdaniels
I am quite sure that the tC doesn't use a wideband o2 sensor either, those are reserved for lean-burn fuel economy based cars for zero-emissions.
This guy sure is stupid. Reserved for lean-burn fuel economy car. lol
10-14-2005, 08:17 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
:D
Yes you do! They're mostly internal though - if exists at all. Arguably, you might need a BOV more so on a s/c than on a turbo although the arguments for it escape me for now.
Yes you do! They're mostly internal though - if exists at all. Arguably, you might need a BOV more so on a s/c than on a turbo although the arguments for it escape me for now.
10-14-2005, 11:33 PM
#39
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TRD superchargers have a by-pass valve. When you release the throttle the bypass valve opens allowing the extra air to bypass the intake. I blieve the extra air is just recirculated within the supercharger.
10-15-2005, 12:58 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by OutCrnrU
Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
How do you know this?