Mecanica_Pito

To those guys that have experience with the 2AZ-FE engine: what modifications (if any) have you done to the oil lubrication system to prevent failures on the engine. It happened to SCIONGT35R's engine now but it has happened to other people too (318_tC, etc).

We are revving the engine to 7,500rpms at his time and plan to raise it even higher as soon as the AEM EMS is installed. We installed a new OEM oil pump and also modified the oil pressure bypass valve to open at a higher pressure. We had ACL bearings all around and the crankshaft had oil notches on the rod journals. We run 10W-30 synthetic oil and use the K&N oil filter!!!!

Are there any upgraded oil pumps for the engine???

There are people here supposed to have very high horsepower 2AZ-FE engines (+500): would you care to chime in and help!!!!

Thanks in advance.
Pito

Mecanica_Pito

I found this one from TOGA Performance !!

Have anyone installed it?

Pito

ScionGT35R

I like that pump and also the bearings. Did someone has ever buy anything from them?

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...ngs-scion.html

20tCDude05

Looks like some good aftermarket selections, but I have never heard of those companies before, so that scares me.

Guest

Exactly what failures did you experience? Spun bearing? Please provide details. I'm sure there are upgraded factory replacements pumps available out there. I've never heard of TOGA performance. Do they have actually spec on the flow rate of their pump vs factory or is it just listed as a part# and a price--some companies will sell cheap oem replacement pumps with some "japanese" name when in fact the pump is just some cheap oem-style pump that you can pick up from your local autozone. Again, I'm not familiar with TOGA, but it could be a legit performance company.

We are working on the ultimate oil pump setup--dry sump oil system--mainly for racing purposes. It's a bit expensive but it is the best setup you can get to deal with oil starvation issues. Did you run an external oil cooler with your motor? The factory oil system was design to handle 130whp not 500whp. Once the oil temp exceeds it's operating temp range, it will begin to break down. The same goes for the cooling system, the factory radiator core is only 1/2" thick, not sufficient to cool 500whp for an extended period of time. We will show you pics of our racing radiator used on our TA tc. It's has a 2" thick core, with the same frontal surface area.

MrC

RSracer

I bought my rods from them, killer deal paid $359 shipped for K1 rods. The sent the wrong rods by accident, K1 had the wrong product ID. So the company sent me the correct set with a UPS box. Basicly got 2 sets of rod within ONE week.

I don't think the TOGA pump is much of an upgrade. More of an aftermarket OEM comparable pump.

ScionGT35R

No answers yet??? I thougth we have some good builders on this forum. What it's going on? I need some help here!!!!!!!!

Mecanica_Pito

I am not sure of what the term is but I don't think it'a spun bearing. The #3 rod bearing was kind of squashed in there but the bearings themselves did not spinned on the rod! All the other rod bearings are completely fine without any marks.

Nope we are not running any oil cooler on the engine. We might be adding one now!!

Pito

Guest

[quote="Mecanica_Pito"]I am not sure of what the term is but I don't think it'a spun bearing. The #3 rod bearing was kind of squashed in there but the bearings themselves did not spinned on the rod! All the other rod bearings are completely fine without any marks.

Sounds like there was insufficient lubrication to the rod journal bearing in question.
Did you clean out all the oil holes on the crank journals that supply oil to the rod journal during assembly? Did you check the oil hole for the #3 rod for any signs of material that may have clogged up the oil hole, after tearing apart the motor? If all other bearing journals show no signs of wear, this leads me to believe that oil pump may not be the culprit. Did you also check for sufficient clearance on the main and rod journal bearings. If there were insufficient oil clearances, this could also lead to inadequate oil supply to the rod journal bearing. Did you check the clearances on each and every bearing surfaces, on the mains and rod journals during assembly? Never assume that everything is perfect just because all the components are brand new. All clearances must be check and recheck during assembly.

Whichout having the motor in front of me or knowing how it was assembled, all I can do is speculate. When we are ready to build and blueprint our own motor and we can confirmed that the oil pump is supplying adequate pressure at all rpms and we still experience oil starvation to the bearing journals, that's when we can speculate that the oiling system or bearings are inadequate for the kinds of rpm and load that we're generating with the motor.

You may also want to cross drill and chamfer the oil holes on the rod journal of the crank to provide additional oil feed to the rod journal bearings. This will normally reduce the oil pressure, which may not be an issue here, since the oil pressure was increased when you plugged the oil feed to the counter balancer shaft.

Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer as to why you experienced a failure with your rod bearings.

MrC

Guest

The oil pump on the 2nd gen 2az-fe motor might possibly be a higher flowing pump since toyota added the piston oil squirters on the 2nd gen motor. This may be something to look into. When i get some free time, i will disassemble both the 1st and 2nd gen pump to see if there is any internal difference.s But if someone can check with toyoto corp to find out, that would even be better.

MrC

Mecanica_Pito

Yes I did!
Not yet! The engine has not been tore apart yet. I have not seen the damage as I was not the one that dissasembled the oil pan. I will make a detailed inspection of the part as soon as the car arrives here.
You have a good point there but since I have to replace the oil pump and bearings anyway I will find stronger ones while I am at it.
The rod journals were already chamfered but they were not cross drilled! I will check into that .

Pito

noskatana94

I work for Toyota-Scion as a parts slinger, and I just check on the part numbers of the Oil Pump and it is the same from Gen 1 to Gen 2, so there is no differance in flow rate.

Mecanica_Pito

Talk about the right person at the right time.
Thank you!

Pito

Guest

Thanks for chiming in. I may be pming you a lot since most of the parts guy at our local toyota dealers doesn't know the difference between a cylinder head bolt and a main cap bolt.

There are differences in the pump. At least in the oil pressure valve housing. I will post pics as soon as I get a chance. Toyota may have created the revised pump and superceeded the part# for the old oil pump with the new pump. The mounting position, drive sprocket and overall dimensions of the pump are pretty much the same between the two. So there's no problem using either pump. What i'm more concerned about is the internal oil pump gears and oil pressure valving. We will find out soon enough.

Thanks for checking this out.

One more thing, the 2nd gen motor has a plastic sleeve surrounding the 4 cylinder bores. It looks almost like toyota was either trying to limit the amount of coolant flowing through the outside of the bore or they were trying to isolate the heat from the cylinder bore against the surrounding block. And ideas what this thing is called.

MrC

TCpete

i've had this problem before on the #3 rod when i blew one of my motors... even though the bearings i ordered were OEM the #3 bearing was not correct and warped at one side which prevented propper lubrication...hence it failed..

the oil pumps are the same all toyo has done is added the squirters for better lubrication....

do u guys use an 05-06 block or an 07+ block... typically the 05-06 blocks have this problem about oil lubrication... 07s ppl are using more because they've corrected the minor problem...

if im not mistaken you can buy an upgraded oil pump system from summit racing with a regulator to help keep oil pressure continuous.. thats something ive seen and have done in the past.

only think i can suspect is a clogged oil journal in the assembly process which happens.... i try to run high pressure AIR through the journals and oil lines before final assembly to make sure all fragments have been cleared or cleaned... then i'll do the finall assembly.. its happend to me before on other motors were the oil either dries up and clogs or fragments of metal, dust, etc can or will accumulate if the motor is left un touched for a while which cause problems later...

post pics if you can of the tear down...

ScionGT35R

By the way!!!

Does anyone have a crank for sale???


We need one ASAP!!!

Guest

I believe they are using the 1st gen block. The oil squirters were added to cool the pistons--perfect for forced induction purposes. Component wise, there were no significant changes. But there are quite a few changes to the block and lower block casting. These casting changes seem to be geared towards making the motor stronger--perfect for making more power. The head bolts on the 2nd gen motor is stronger since it's shorter with more threads engaging into the block. The 1st gen head bolt engages only 30+mm into the block, where the 2nd gen engages 40+mm into the block. And since the bolt is the same diameter but shorter, it reduces the stretching on the bolts under the same load.

MrC

huafist

Is it like what Honda calls a "block guard"?

Guest

No, a block guard for a honda block (B, F, K series motor) is basically a machined girdle that turns the top of the cylinder block from an open-deck to a closed-deck. The piece i'm talking about is a molded plastic piece that that drops right into the coolant cavity in the block--it serves no purpose in regards to strengthening the deck.

The only thing I can think of for adding this insert is to reduce the amount of coolant flow to the cylinder bore so more coolant can flow to the head, or used as some sort of heat insulator.

MrC

Guest

I'd sell you one if I had a spare? Did you price out how much a new one would run from the dealership? I'm curious to know.

MrC