Supercharger or turbo?
02-24-2009, 01:46 PM
#1
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Shawnee
Posts: 265
Supercharger or turbo?
I did my research and I havent found what setup would be the better way to go. I hear you can boost more on the supercharger but I like the bov of a turbo. So what do you guys think would be better for the money sound and preformance
02-24-2009, 02:13 PM
#5
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Patuxent River, MD
Posts: 2,476
No flame, but here goes. GO TURBO.
I'll do the requisite "do a search" comment. What recearch did you do exactly? Seriously, there are already multiple threads here. Don't use the top search text box, click the red search button and refine it to just the tC F/I section.
Superchargers have the main advantage of making more power at lower RPM's. They have a linear power curve and are impossible to overboost because boost is set by pulley speed. However, they are limited to a maximum boost because as you compress the air more, it gets hotter and the supercharger loses efficiency. Also, it takes more work to compress the air more, so they take more HP from the engine as a parasitic loss to compress it. Finally, the TRD is the only bolt on S/C for the tC and it's out of production in March. To get more boost, you also need to swap to a smaller puley, and at some point it will just slip.
For turbo's, it gets complicated real quick. I suggest you read the Turbo Tech sections on the Garrett website, start with 101.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech101.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech102.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html
Bottom line is PSI on a turbo is not the only factor. PSI AND turbo size are what determines power. A bigger turbo on lower boost will make more power than a small one on higer. The smaller turbo will just make boost earlier. It's much easier to increase turbo boost pressure, jsut change a wastegate spring or add an external boost controller that bleeds air off of the wastegate, causing it to open at a higher boost.
When you see one supercharged tC pushing past 300 HP, let me know. It's entirely possible, but not reasonable on the TRD design. They use a vortex supercharger, which in my opinion takes the worst features of a turbo (requires oil cooling) and a supercharger (always on, fixed boost) and puts them together. If anyone ever made an Eaton-based roots blower kit it may be competitive. They're sealed bearings and don't require an oil line, plus no seals to blow out, have a bypass valve built in for better fuel economy, and are about as efficient and quiet as you're going to get.
I'll do the requisite "do a search" comment. What recearch did you do exactly? Seriously, there are already multiple threads here. Don't use the top search text box, click the red search button and refine it to just the tC F/I section.
Superchargers have the main advantage of making more power at lower RPM's. They have a linear power curve and are impossible to overboost because boost is set by pulley speed. However, they are limited to a maximum boost because as you compress the air more, it gets hotter and the supercharger loses efficiency. Also, it takes more work to compress the air more, so they take more HP from the engine as a parasitic loss to compress it. Finally, the TRD is the only bolt on S/C for the tC and it's out of production in March. To get more boost, you also need to swap to a smaller puley, and at some point it will just slip.
For turbo's, it gets complicated real quick. I suggest you read the Turbo Tech sections on the Garrett website, start with 101.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech101.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech102.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html
Bottom line is PSI on a turbo is not the only factor. PSI AND turbo size are what determines power. A bigger turbo on lower boost will make more power than a small one on higer. The smaller turbo will just make boost earlier. It's much easier to increase turbo boost pressure, jsut change a wastegate spring or add an external boost controller that bleeds air off of the wastegate, causing it to open at a higher boost.
When you see one supercharged tC pushing past 300 HP, let me know. It's entirely possible, but not reasonable on the TRD design. They use a vortex supercharger, which in my opinion takes the worst features of a turbo (requires oil cooling) and a supercharger (always on, fixed boost) and puts them together. If anyone ever made an Eaton-based roots blower kit it may be competitive. They're sealed bearings and don't require an oil line, plus no seals to blow out, have a bypass valve built in for better fuel economy, and are about as efficient and quiet as you're going to get.
02-24-2009, 03:05 PM
#6
Originally Posted by vettereddie
No flame, but here goes. GO TURBO.
I'll do the requisite "do a search" comment. What recearch did you do exactly? Seriously, there are already multiple threads here. Don't use the top search text box, click the red search button and refine it to just the tC F/I section.
Superchargers have the main advantage of making more power at lower RPM's. They have a linear power curve and are impossible to overboost because boost is set by pulley speed. However, they are limited to a maximum boost because as you compress the air more, it gets hotter and the supercharger loses efficiency. Also, it takes more work to compress the air more, so they take more HP from the engine as a parasitic loss to compress it. Finally, the TRD is the only bolt on S/C for the tC and it's out of production in March. To get more boost, you also need to swap to a smaller puley, and at some point it will just slip.
For turbo's, it gets complicated real quick. I suggest you read the Turbo Tech sections on the Garrett website, start with 101.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech101.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech102.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html
Bottom line is PSI on a turbo is not the only factor. PSI AND turbo size are what determines power. A bigger turbo on lower boost will make more power than a small one on higer. The smaller turbo will just make boost earlier. It's much easier to increase turbo boost pressure, jsut change a wastegate spring or add an external boost controller that bleeds air off of the wastegate, causing it to open at a higher boost.
When you see one supercharged tC pushing past 300 HP, let me know. It's entirely possible, but not reasonable on the TRD design. They use a vortex supercharger, which in my opinion takes the worst features of a turbo (requires oil cooling) and a supercharger (always on, fixed boost) and puts them together. If anyone ever made an Eaton-based roots blower kit it may be competitive. They're sealed bearings and don't require an oil line, plus no seals to blow out, have a bypass valve built in for better fuel economy, and are about as efficient and quiet as you're going to get.
I'll do the requisite "do a search" comment. What recearch did you do exactly? Seriously, there are already multiple threads here. Don't use the top search text box, click the red search button and refine it to just the tC F/I section.
Superchargers have the main advantage of making more power at lower RPM's. They have a linear power curve and are impossible to overboost because boost is set by pulley speed. However, they are limited to a maximum boost because as you compress the air more, it gets hotter and the supercharger loses efficiency. Also, it takes more work to compress the air more, so they take more HP from the engine as a parasitic loss to compress it. Finally, the TRD is the only bolt on S/C for the tC and it's out of production in March. To get more boost, you also need to swap to a smaller puley, and at some point it will just slip.
For turbo's, it gets complicated real quick. I suggest you read the Turbo Tech sections on the Garrett website, start with 101.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech101.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech102.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html
Bottom line is PSI on a turbo is not the only factor. PSI AND turbo size are what determines power. A bigger turbo on lower boost will make more power than a small one on higer. The smaller turbo will just make boost earlier. It's much easier to increase turbo boost pressure, jsut change a wastegate spring or add an external boost controller that bleeds air off of the wastegate, causing it to open at a higher boost.
When you see one supercharged tC pushing past 300 HP, let me know. It's entirely possible, but not reasonable on the TRD design. They use a vortex supercharger, which in my opinion takes the worst features of a turbo (requires oil cooling) and a supercharger (always on, fixed boost) and puts them together. If anyone ever made an Eaton-based roots blower kit it may be competitive. They're sealed bearings and don't require an oil line, plus no seals to blow out, have a bypass valve built in for better fuel economy, and are about as efficient and quiet as you're going to get.
There are s/c's over 300hp. The question here is do you want to deal with the problems that will arise with your s/c? The blower part i would say is fine. The shaft/bearings on the pulley side are a bad design. Lot of used s/c's out there that you can get for cheap. I was at 220whp and it was fast enough to get me in a lot of trouble quick. All depends on your hp goals, and your mechanical experience, how easily you loose your temper lol.
02-24-2009, 03:09 PM
#7
Banned
Fail, INC
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: QUEENS718, NOA YORK!
Posts: 11,041
I only know of 1 SC tc that was at 331whp I think. an to do ll of that u spend A LOT OF MONEY when u can jus go turbo and spend even cheaper on that. but of course NEVER boost on a budget. turbo will always make more power over a SC. and btw supercharger is crap anyway, that's y there discontinuing that POS
02-24-2009, 04:14 PM
#12
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Shawnee
Posts: 265
Lol i know alot about turbos I had one on my old car. I just heard some a guy local that superchargers are easier with a tc and you can boost more I just dont like the fact that is a fixed boost rather than on a turbo you can change your boost
02-24-2009, 04:17 PM
#13
well you need to put some baby powder on your right hand..take a deep breath...and then slap the heck out of the local guy who told you that garbage. If you really did some research you would definitely understand that superchargers in general will never be able to out boost a turbo.
02-24-2009, 04:19 PM
#14
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The First State
Posts: 1,938
Originally Posted by java09
Originally Posted by dave2610
just get a flux capacitor and call it a day. they generate 1.21 jigga watts of power so yea
02-24-2009, 06:13 PM
#17
Senior Member
teamNJCT
Fresh Crew
SL Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 16,646
Originally Posted by rosedaleny806
I only know of 1 SC tc that was at 331whp I think. an to do ll of that u spend A LOT OF MONEY when u can jus go turbo and spend even cheaper on that. but of course NEVER boost on a budget. turbo will always make more power over a SC. and btw supercharger is crap anyway, that's y there discontinuing that POS
02-24-2009, 06:43 PM
#18
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by CarbonXe
Originally Posted by rosedaleny806
I only know of 1 SC tc that was at 331whp I think. an to do ll of that u spend A LOT OF MONEY when u can jus go turbo and spend even cheaper on that. but of course NEVER boost on a budget. turbo will always make more power over a SC. and btw supercharger is crap anyway, that's y there discontinuing that POS
+1 on that.
I'm tired of seeing this thread title. OP did NOT research. If he did, he would have found 10million S/C'er vs Turbo threads.
02-24-2009, 06:45 PM
#19
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by Domo
well you need to put some baby powder on your right hand..take a deep breath...and then slap the heck out of the local guy who told you that garbage. If you really did some research you would definitely understand that superchargers in general will never be able to out boost a turbo.
+1 bro.
