Aluminum Light Weight Flywheel
01-13-2005, 03:13 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 19
Aluminum Light Weight Flywheel
We are working on an Aluminum Light weight flywheel for the tC just wanted to see how much intrest people have?
We will be getting a batch of 10 done for us and give the best possible deal to scion life customers.
Thanks,
Ray
www.ultrarev.com
We will be getting a batch of 10 done for us and give the best possible deal to scion life customers.
Thanks,
Ray
www.ultrarev.com
01-13-2005, 09:21 PM
#5
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 134
01-14-2005, 04:19 AM
#10
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
more power to the wheels becouse its less weight to get spining so it takes less power to turn it its supposed to be good for about 10ftlb of tourq on most cars from what ive heard
but you know how that goes
but you know how that goes
01-14-2005, 04:26 AM
#11
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by iowagary
Does this just save weight? Improve performance? Allow the engine or clutch to do something better? What?
01-14-2005, 02:41 PM
#13
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 62
A flywheel (in any mechanical system), is designed to dynamically balance a system. A lighter flywheel will allow the system to spin faster, but could lead to dynamic balancing issues. A heavier flywheel will absorb irregularites in system speed leading to a smoother operation. Obviously the lighter one will have less inertia and will be quicker, engine may not be as "smooth" though. Sorry if any of that seemed choppy, I am having difficulty generalizing my machine dynamics class I had a little to long ago.
I think this would be a good modification for the engine, my only concern is the 6061 aluminum. This is a decent grade of aluminum, but aluminum is fairly ductile, other lightweight flywheels I have seen have been made out of chrome molly steel. I have never sat down and calculated the force it takes to strip off the gears of an engine flywheel, but it seems questionable to me why they would choose 6061 instead of 7075 aluminum. However if they calculated it will work, I will have to believe them, but if they just picked up 6061 and guessed it would work, then that could lead to issues.
FYI:
Dynamic balancing - system is balanced while rotating, by a series of formulas involving moment of inertia and center of mass calculations.
Static balancing - system is balanced not in rotation, system must be statically balanced before it can be dynamic balanced. It is possible for something to be statically balanced and not dynamically balanced, but not the other way around.
I think this would be a good modification for the engine, my only concern is the 6061 aluminum. This is a decent grade of aluminum, but aluminum is fairly ductile, other lightweight flywheels I have seen have been made out of chrome molly steel. I have never sat down and calculated the force it takes to strip off the gears of an engine flywheel, but it seems questionable to me why they would choose 6061 instead of 7075 aluminum. However if they calculated it will work, I will have to believe them, but if they just picked up 6061 and guessed it would work, then that could lead to issues.
FYI:
Dynamic balancing - system is balanced while rotating, by a series of formulas involving moment of inertia and center of mass calculations.
Static balancing - system is balanced not in rotation, system must be statically balanced before it can be dynamic balanced. It is possible for something to be statically balanced and not dynamically balanced, but not the other way around.
01-14-2005, 03:07 PM
#14
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 197
Originally Posted by TKE_BH964
A flywheel (in any mechanical system), is designed to dynamically balance a system. A lighter flywheel will allow the system to spin faster, but could lead to dynamic balancing issues. A heavier flywheel will absorb irregularites in system speed leading to a smoother operation. Obviously the lighter one will have less inertia and will be quicker, engine may not be as "smooth" though. Sorry if any of that seemed choppy, I am having difficulty generalizing my machine dynamics class I had a little to long ago.
I was discussing lightweight flywheels with someone that works on cars, and he quickly mentioned the possibility of "bogging down the engine" which I'm not quite sure I get.
01-14-2005, 03:17 PM
#15
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 62
I was speaking in general terms for any rotating piece of equipment.
A flywheel is meant to dynamically balance a system. If you make it lighter, then the system won't be dynamically balanced anymore. This could lead to decreased bearing life due to the extra stress caused by an unbalanced system.
Think about a ball rolling down a hill, and back up a hill on the other side. If you have a big heavy ball (hehe, sorry couldnt resist) it will go at a nice consistant speed up and down until it settles. If you have a lighter one it won't go up the other side as far and move quicker.
Applying similiar logic, a flywheel keeps things in rotation, so when the motor is turning it will keep turning. A lighter one will have a harder time keeping the engine turning. This is what would bog the engine.
A flywheel is meant to dynamically balance a system. If you make it lighter, then the system won't be dynamically balanced anymore. This could lead to decreased bearing life due to the extra stress caused by an unbalanced system.
Think about a ball rolling down a hill, and back up a hill on the other side. If you have a big heavy ball (hehe, sorry couldnt resist) it will go at a nice consistant speed up and down until it settles. If you have a lighter one it won't go up the other side as far and move quicker.
Applying similiar logic, a flywheel keeps things in rotation, so when the motor is turning it will keep turning. A lighter one will have a harder time keeping the engine turning. This is what would bog the engine.
01-14-2005, 03:31 PM
#17
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 197
Originally Posted by TKE_BH964
Applying similiar logic, a flywheel keeps things in rotation, so when the motor is turning it will keep turning. A lighter one will have a harder time keeping the engine turning. This is what would bog the engine.
If so, isn't an equivalent thing: added weight in the car? And if so, what is the comparitive effects between the two in terms of magnitude?
01-14-2005, 03:57 PM
#18
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,677
Originally Posted by PunkInDrublic
**NOOB QUESTION**
Can this be used in an AT car?
*ducks tomatos being thrown*
Can this be used in an AT car?
*ducks tomatos being thrown*
01-14-2005, 04:21 PM
#19
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 62
Alright, I am getting backed into a techinical corner here with no calculations to back anything up. I am trying to generalize things so its easier to understand.
It is hard to get a magnitude number on something, engines are kinda tricky, there is a lot going on there.
More than likely a lightweight flywheel will only hurt performance at low RPM, at higher RPM things are moving quicker and this will make up for it. Although at higher RPM the unbalancing issue is accelerated and bearing life decreases due to oscillations that weren't there before.
Adding weight to your car can be good or bad too (usually bad duh), it will definately make things slower, but it will make things slower at all speeds, not just low RPM. Extra weight could be a good thing as it makes a car more stable. If you hit a bump in a light car you are more likely to get tossed around, whereas the same bump at same speed with a heavy car isn't going to affect you as much.
I probably won't get the lightweight flywheel (any manufacturer) I do not plan to take my tC to a track of any kind. More than likely the good outweighs the bad things going on. If your car is a daily driver and you plan on keeping it for a long time, then long term effects (bearing life) could become costly down the road. If I was buying a recreational vehicle that would only get driven on the weekends and at the drag strip or road coarse every once in a while, you bet I would buy a lightweight flywheel. Parasitic losses on an average engine can be up to 15% of bhp if I remember right.
Engines are very complex systems that involve just about every area of mechanical(and now electrical and even computer) engineering. You have the thermodynamics of the fuel, fluid dynamics of the fuel air mixture going into the engine, the obvious dynamic considerations of pistons, valves, and everything else, and don't forget about heat transfer. Anything you do to an engine has a cause and effect. For every good there is a bad. Engine designers weigh all these options when designing something. The flywheel on any car was designed to have a certain weight and weight distribution for a reason.
I don't have my refrences with me at the current moment, so if anyone is wanting specifics on general engine design, I will have to get back to you.
It is hard to get a magnitude number on something, engines are kinda tricky, there is a lot going on there.
More than likely a lightweight flywheel will only hurt performance at low RPM, at higher RPM things are moving quicker and this will make up for it. Although at higher RPM the unbalancing issue is accelerated and bearing life decreases due to oscillations that weren't there before.
Adding weight to your car can be good or bad too (usually bad duh), it will definately make things slower, but it will make things slower at all speeds, not just low RPM. Extra weight could be a good thing as it makes a car more stable. If you hit a bump in a light car you are more likely to get tossed around, whereas the same bump at same speed with a heavy car isn't going to affect you as much.
I probably won't get the lightweight flywheel (any manufacturer) I do not plan to take my tC to a track of any kind. More than likely the good outweighs the bad things going on. If your car is a daily driver and you plan on keeping it for a long time, then long term effects (bearing life) could become costly down the road. If I was buying a recreational vehicle that would only get driven on the weekends and at the drag strip or road coarse every once in a while, you bet I would buy a lightweight flywheel. Parasitic losses on an average engine can be up to 15% of bhp if I remember right.
Engines are very complex systems that involve just about every area of mechanical(and now electrical and even computer) engineering. You have the thermodynamics of the fuel, fluid dynamics of the fuel air mixture going into the engine, the obvious dynamic considerations of pistons, valves, and everything else, and don't forget about heat transfer. Anything you do to an engine has a cause and effect. For every good there is a bad. Engine designers weigh all these options when designing something. The flywheel on any car was designed to have a certain weight and weight distribution for a reason.
I don't have my refrences with me at the current moment, so if anyone is wanting specifics on general engine design, I will have to get back to you.