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Buying a TC, have some ??'s

Old 12-29-2014, 08:15 PM
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Default Buying a TC, have some ??'s

So, my SRT decided to collide with the front end of a careless truck. Insurance totaled the car, so i'm out of my toy, but i have around 15k to dump into a new project. Originally planned on grabbing a FRS, but i hate Subaru's with a passion, and it has a Subaru engine, so that killed it for me. So i've decided to pick up a first gen TC.

Coming from the Neon/srt world, modding is a hobby. Most of the parts on my SRT were hand made, hand tooled and specific to what i needed(thank you family owned machine shop). So i have a few a questions.

1- Reliability. I know that the engine is made by toyota, so i'm perfectly ok with that. I've never heard of a toyota engine crapping out unless heavy, heavy mods were added. So my question is about the transmission and electronics. Transmission reliability? Ease of rebuild, availability of parts, etc. Also, any electrical demons i should look for and fix after i purchase the car?

2- Modding. How receptive is the engine to modification?. I have already done some research into Forced induction for the TC, and i'm leaning towards the turbonetics kit. However, i still have ALL of my SRT parts. Garrett t3/t4 turbo, IC, Greddy BOV, Megasquirt, etc. I know i'll need to buy a turbofold ,or have a header/flange fabbed up, but i should be able to reused 90% of my parts(except the IC/turbofold).

3- I can't seem to find any dedicated websites to scions related to performance parts. There are generic sites, sure. I'm looking for something like Modern Performance, but for scions, instead of dodge/chevy. Anyone have a good list?
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
So, my SRT decided to collide with the front end of a careless truck. Insurance totaled the car, so i'm out of my toy, but i have around 15k to dump into a new project. Originally planned on grabbing a FRS, but i hate Subaru's with a passion, and it has a Subaru engine, so that killed it for me. So i've decided to pick up a first gen TC.
Unfortunate circumstances, but welcome nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
Coming from the Neon/srt world, modding is a hobby. Most of the parts on my SRT were hand made, hand tooled and specific to what i needed(thank you family owned machine shop). So i have a few a questions.
I'm interested in seeing what you can do, there's a few of here that have exhausted a lot of what is available for our cars. I know I'm always looking for new parts.

Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
1- Reliability. I know that the engine is made by toyota, so i'm perfectly ok with that. I've never heard of a toyota engine crapping out unless heavy, heavy mods were added. So my question is about the transmission and electronics. Transmission reliability? Ease of rebuild, availability of parts, etc. Also, any electrical demons i should look for and fix after i purchase the car?
I've owned my tC now for 5+ years. With regular maintenance, I have yet to have an issue with my engine or manual transmission; I'm at around 115k. Rebuilding seems relatively easy and the 2.4L engine was a widely used engine so parts are available. As far as electrical, you're good, I've never had an issue, and don't believe there is any common issue.

Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
2- Modding. How receptive is the engine to modification?. I have already done some research into Forced induction for the TC, and i'm leaning towards the turbonetics kit. However, i still have ALL of my SRT parts. Garrett t3/t4 turbo, IC, Greddy BOV, Megasquirt, etc. I know i'll need to buy a turbofold ,or have a header/flange fabbed up, but i should be able to reused 90% of my parts(except the IC/turbofold).
Dpends. NA receptivity is about 0. Throw a header, full exhaust and intake on and you'll struggle to net 20hp. Full build the engine too and with a good tune you'll hit just over 200 to the wheels.

The FI track is the way to go if you want to go fast with tCs. Ptuning and Dezod are the go to shops for FI on the tCs. Both sell very reliable kits and are able to work with you to get you exactly where you want to be power wise.

I know for a fact, Dezod would be willing to talk with you at length to figure out something best for you.

Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
3- I can't seem to find any dedicated websites to scions related to performance parts. There are generic sites, sure. I'm looking for something like Modern Performance, but for scions, instead of dodge/chevy. Anyone have a good list?
The main sites I use are:

Racingsolution.com
Fastscions.com
Dezod.com
Ptuning.com

If you can't find what you need there, it probrably isn't made.



Again, welcome, and good luck.
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:06 PM
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Thanks for the welcome. Like i said, i should be able to adapt my Garrett turbo easy enough, so i wouldn't need to buy a whole kit. The turbo alone set me back 1600$, so i don't want to buy another. It was rebuilt about 800 miles ago to boot. I'll be doing my own IC piping as well, i have 15ft of 3" aluminum piping left over from a Craigslist score lol. Hows the car react to synthetic? I've run rotella 5w-40 diesel synthetic in the SRT for a few years. That stuff is amazing and i swear by it.

There was a weak point in the PL chassis from dodge, and it was the multi function switch. It didn't like ballasts for HID's, and i have a set of bi-xenon projectors and regular projectors that are taking up space. So the electrical is sturdy enough to handle the 35kv startup of the ballasts? Good, no relay harness for them then. I plan on going for 300-350whp, and lighten up the car.. Anything more without a LSD is kinda pointless, but they do make quaife units for the TC, so theres that. Kind of early in the planning process, but i have 80% of the parts i need.

I'll list what i have off the SRT i can use(that the truck didnt destroy)
-Garrett t3/t4 turbo, can't remember trim, but fast spool.
-AGP race IC, seems a little bulky for the TC, but i'll make it work.
-Megasquirt standalone engine management
-Garrett BOV(came with the turbo, rated at 10-35psi)
-3" K&N filter, why not reuse it? lol
-Retrofitsource HID bulbs, ballasts, projectors. DIY retrofit
-Wheels. 5x100, 18x9.5's. Same wheel specs are my srt, woo
-BMW M3 vader seats, black leather, heated, and sexy

Then go with hotchkis swar bars front and back, CF/alum strut bars front and back(1/4" Wall CF tubing, alum endlinks with steel strut rings). I can do the carbon fiber work easily enough, i'll reuse the endlinks off the SRT and CNC some steel strut rings.

Not entirely sure about the suspension on these cars tho. I had stage 3 mopar struts/springs on the SRT and it handled like a go cart, i hate coilovers. So i'll do some digging. I live in a state where i don't have to pass inspection, so i can do cat deletes easily enough and simply run 3" straight pipes out the ___, with my side exit Magnaflows.

Don't plan on going crazy with the exterior. Might throw on a front lip. CF fenders/hood/trunk are a must. I like keeping the power/weight ratio pretty high, so i may go with the CF doors too. Who knows, should be fun.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:15 AM
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Sounds awesome man, welcome. Like Basebllstar said, talk to Dezod motorsports, as their kit uses a t3/t4 turbo. Assuming it has the same bolt pattern as yours, you can just use their manifold and downpipe. That just leaves you with intake piping and fueling to take care of. They sell complete intercooler piping as well, which gives you another option.

I know you said you have a 3" intake, but I think the MAF tubing is 2.5", meaning you would need to step it down for that part. Your best bet would be to buy one that will bolt up as there is a particular mounting flange for the MAF. Or, you could salvage the MAF section from a cold air intake and do the rest of your own piping.

Lastly, I read your last part about the straight pipes. Please keep in mind that these engines do not sound very good. You're coming from the SRT, which is one of the best sounding 4 bangers around. You will be a bit disappointed here. Check out some videos of turbo tc's on youtube and make sure you can live with the sound.

I'm doing my turbo install this spring, and am formulating a plan of attack to make it not sound like crap. I plan to do a high flow cat and/or Vibrant ultra quiet resonator into a resonated midpipe and out to rear muffler that does not like like a fart cannon, lol.

Good luck man!
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bbsciontc View Post
I'm doing my turbo install this spring, and am formulating a plan of attack to make it not sound like crap. I plan to do a high flow cat and/or Vibrant ultra quiet resonator into a resonated midpipe and out to rear muffler that does not like like a fart cannon, lol.

Good luck man!
Yeah, i've checked youtube, they don't sound too great tbh, but thats just another challenge. I always use Magnaflow mufflers in everything i own. If i do straight pipes, i'll toss in a high flow glasspack in the mid, and small resonator before the muffler. Should quiet it down a bit. It'll be a bit before i can start all this anyway, waiting on the insurance to cut my check..lol. So i'm shopping around for a good 5 speed right now. I'd rather have a 6 speed, but want in one hand, poop in the other and see which gets filled first. lol
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:03 PM
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Welcome!

Im not a huge fan of the transmission. My car has been stock for 120k miles and it already has some synchronizing issues when downshifting and powershifting. Other than that I have really enjoyed driving mine. It isn't fast but I have the suspension setup to carve which is more fun for my driving style. Maintenance has been simple. I see these cars as the future 99-00 civic si's. Light(ish) and lots of aftermarket stuff. Plus the hatchback can fit more crap in it than most people think.
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:03 PM
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Welcome!

Im not a huge fan of the transmission. My car has been stock for 120k miles and it already has some synchronizing issues when downshifting and powershifting. Other than that I have really enjoyed driving mine. It isn't fast but I have the suspension setup to carve which is more fun for my driving style. Maintenance has been simple. I see these cars as the future 99-00 civic si's. Light(ish) and lots of aftermarket stuff. Plus the hatchback can fit more crap in it than most people think.
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:56 PM
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I'm a big fan of the full synthetic Rotella myself, but 5w40 is too thick for this motor. Toyota spec'd 30 weight originally, then changed it to 20 for efficiency reasons. Personally, I'll stick to 0w30 synthetic and be happy.
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Old 12-30-2014, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marvelicious View Post
I'm a big fan of the full synthetic Rotella myself, but 5w40 is too thick for this motor. Toyota spec'd 30 weight originally, then changed it to 20 for efficiency reasons. Personally, I'll stick to 0w30 synthetic and be happy.
Well, i figured the 5w40 rotella diesel worked great in the SRT, which is a 2.4, so it'd work in the toyota 2.4. Granted the SRT was used mainly for autoX and making mustangs angry. I'll do some digging around, i can ask some friends that work for the Toyota plant in Georgetown. They have their own little race team and i'm sure 1 of them have some suggestions.

Originally Posted by Tshock View Post
Welcome!

Im not a huge fan of the transmission. My car has been stock for 120k miles and it already has some synchronizing issues when downshifting and powershifting. Other than that I have really enjoyed driving mine. It isn't fast but I have the suspension setup to carve which is more fun for my driving style. Maintenance has been simple. I see these cars as the future 99-00 civic si's. Light(ish) and lots of aftermarket stuff. Plus the hatchback can fit more crap in it than most people think.
Funny enough, i have a k20 hatch sitting in my driveway. 380k miles, and still runs like a stabbed rat. What suspension setup are you running? coilovers?
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
Well, i figured the 5w40 rotella diesel worked great in the SRT, which is a 2.4, so it'd work in the toyota 2.4. Granted the SRT was used mainly for autoX and making mustangs angry. I'll do some digging around, i can ask some friends that work for the Toyota plant in Georgetown. They have their own little race team and i'm sure 1 of them have some suggestions
I run the 5w40 Rotella T6 in a Toyota truck, a diesel Benz, and a couple bikes, and it is great stuff. Commercial diesel oils are wet clutch friendly for motorcycle use and that Rotella has a pretty serious detergent package which makes it extended drain friendly. I also prefer the gallon jugs - it's just that much less garbage to me. I'd buy it in a 5 gallon pail if I could find it and if they made a 0w30 (or 5w30) I'd run it happily in the Scion.

This is the way I understand the weight issue: these days, they design a motor with a grade of oil in mind, and things like hydraulic lifters and variable valve timing systems rely on the correct weight because they essentially use your engine oil as a hydraulic fluid. As a generalization, it's OK to go lower on the first number (0Wxx instead of 5Wxx or 10Wxx for example) as that only relates to a cold engine and going thin there will essentially just help the oil get moving quicker. Once you get up to operating temp though, you want your valve timing working like it's supposed to. I'm actually surprised one of the oil manufacturers hasn't seized on the marketing opportunity to make a "VVT Formula" oil...

Definitely ask your factory guys about it though, I'd be curious to hear their input. I'm no automotive engineer, I've just wasted a little too much time reading about this crap.
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Old 12-31-2014, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Marvelicious View Post
I run the 5w40 Rotella T6 in a Toyota truck, a diesel Benz, and a couple bikes, and it is great stuff. Commercial diesel oils are wet clutch friendly for motorcycle use and that Rotella has a pretty serious detergent package which makes it extended drain friendly. I also prefer the gallon jugs - it's just that much less garbage to me. I'd buy it in a 5 gallon pail if I could find it and if they made a 0w30 (or 5w30) I'd run it happily in the Scion.

Definitely ask your factory guys about it though, I'd be curious to hear their input. I'm no automotive engineer, I've just wasted a little too much time reading about this crap.
I have an entire room of the rotella t6. 40 cases of it left to be exact. Dad used to maintain a fleet of delivery trucks for a local ice producer, and they were bought out and he was able to keep the oil. So i have pretty much a lifetime supply of T6. I asked the guys at DCR(darrell *** racing) about it for the SRT and they said they've been using it for years. The detergent properties are what they love, plus it doesn't need changed as often as conventional synthetics. They change it ever 7500 miles or so on their street cars, which is pretty awesome if you ask me.

I'll call my friend in georgetown tomorrow morning, but i'm almost 100% sure it'll be perfectly ok with the TC's. The SRT engine is a DOHC 2.4, same basic layout as the TC. Next thing i'll need to find is a Megasquirt base tune for the TC to flash overtop of the SRT tune i have. Only thing that sucks about that is the fact i have to drive 60 miles for a tuner around here.
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Old 12-31-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
Funny enough, i have a k20 hatch sitting in my driveway. 380k miles, and still runs like a stabbed rat. What suspension setup are you running? coilovers?
I love me some hondas. I miss my integra! I screwed up trading a thunder grey 94 coupe with a crv-tec swap that I poured my life into. Thats why ive been so hesitant to mess with my scion.

Coils are Form & Function Type 2. They were used, seized, and missing collars (seller, chubbykai, decided not to disclose that). And it took 2 weeks after I paid him for me to get them. After restoring them I set the car up to be low enough to look good and have enough travel to barrel through turnpikes at speed. I would go with BC coils if I had to do it all over again and get a stiffer spring rate. The car doesn't ride stiff and bouncy but its firm and confident. Best upgrade to date besides shifter mods. I never really get the chance to beat someone in a race but when I do I love to tell them its stock from the airbox to the muffler with a **** eating grin
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:16 AM
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Good luck with the transition! I would totally try to hook up the parts from the SRT to the tC. Keep us updated!
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TotalChaos View Post
Good luck with the transition! I would totally try to hook up the parts from the SRT to the tC. Keep us updated!
Will do! the issue i'm having is closing a deal on the damn car..lol. Found a RS1, looked clean until i drove 3 hours and it looked horrible in person. Then found an 08' with 95k miles. Guy said it was a clean title, low miles. I get there..look at the title. Says reconstructed right on the damn title, and it was the 3rd engine in the car..so a big ole nope. Currently waiting on another guy to have his deal fall through on an 07' with 85xxx miles. Has a clean carfax and everything, but he has some ricer parts on the car(hood pins, neon..etc).

All my SRT parts are in storage now. I yanked them off the car last week, cleaned, degreased and rebuilt anything that wasn't up to par. The turbo was rebuilt 7kish miles ago, but i noticed some shaft play and went ahead and rebuilt it again. The housing is being ceramic coated and should be back within the next week. I have the materials for the hot side IC piping sitting in the garage as well, t-304 Stainless which will also be ceramic coated once its all welded and fabbed up. Friend of mine agreed to make me some CF cool side piping for a case of beer, so woo. Just have to fab it up in metal first to make the mold.
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Old 01-15-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
Will do! the issue i'm having is closing a deal on the damn car..lol. Found a RS1, looked clean until i drove 3 hours and it looked horrible in person. Then found an 08' with 95k miles. Guy said it was a clean title, low miles. I get there..look at the title. Says reconstructed right on the damn title, and it was the 3rd engine in the car..so a big ole nope. Currently waiting on another guy to have his deal fall through on an 07' with 85xxx miles. Has a clean carfax and everything, but he has some ricer parts on the car(hood pins, neon..etc).

All my SRT parts are in storage now. I yanked them off the car last week, cleaned, degreased and rebuilt anything that wasn't up to par. The turbo was rebuilt 7kish miles ago, but i noticed some shaft play and went ahead and rebuilt it again. The housing is being ceramic coated and should be back within the next week. I have the materials for the hot side IC piping sitting in the garage as well, t-304 Stainless which will also be ceramic coated once its all welded and fabbed up. Friend of mine agreed to make me some CF cool side piping for a case of beer, so woo. Just have to fab it up in metal first to make the mold.

It's not hard to find tC's in good condition, it's hard to find tC's in good condition cheap. Hah.

Am I the only one seeing the tC's trending to Honda status? Riced-out and modded to ____?
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Old 01-16-2015, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Basebllstar View Post
It's not hard to find tC's in good condition, it's hard to find tC's in good condition cheap. Hah.

Am I the only one seeing the tC's trending to Honda status? Riced-out and modded to ____?
Yeah, i'm picky when it comes to my cars. Everyone ive looked at is either riced out, has 190k miles, or is rebuilt. Which is pretty stupid. I'm all for kids modding their car how THEY want it, but use good parts please. Don't use off brand ebay turbos, or anything along those lines. Sure, the ebay piping is ok..ish. I mean if its stainless its stainless, but its probably chinese stainless which is like putting cardboard piping on the car. It'll rust through or explode, or give you lead poisoning. The most ricey thing ive ever done to a car was cut the muffler off my RT. It started to rust through and sound like crap, so i took a sawzall and cut it to basically a straight pipe and ran another foor of 2.5" exhaust tubing to a small angled tip.
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Old 01-16-2015, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramroids55 View Post
Yeah, i'm picky when it comes to my cars. Everyone ive looked at is either riced out, has 190k miles, or is rebuilt. Which is pretty stupid. I'm all for kids modding their car how THEY want it, but use good parts please. Don't use off brand ebay turbos, or anything along those lines. Sure, the ebay piping is ok..ish. I mean if its stainless its stainless, but its probably chinese stainless which is like putting cardboard piping on the car. It'll rust through or explode, or give you lead poisoning. The most ricey thing ive ever done to a car was cut the muffler off my RT. It started to rust through and sound like crap, so i took a sawzall and cut it to basically a straight pipe and ran another foor of 2.5" exhaust tubing to a small angled tip.
We have all had our ricey moments. I used to have underglow.


I still want to put it back on. Damn you NFS Underground for permanently influencing me...
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Basebllstar View Post
We have all had our ricey moments. I used to have underglow.


I still want to put it back on. Damn you NFS Underground for permanently influencing me...
Underglow adds 25hp, its fact.
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