Considering a tC. Have an 06 Si.
05-25-2007, 12:25 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Considering a tC. Have an 06 Si.
I wasn't going to post this, because I worry about inciting an e-peen war about which car is better, but I need some answers.
I currently drive a gorgeous 2006 Fiji Blue Pearl Honda Civic Si (that's a mouthful!), and I adore it, but there some major things that I just can't seem to get over.
The exterior of the car is flawless, and I like it more than I like the tC's exterior, to be honest, but the paint is honestly among the worst I have ever seen. Sure it looks gorgeous freshly waxed, but to put it into perspective, it isn't rare for we Civic owners to have paint chips down to the bare sheet metal. I've heard the tC's are the same, is there any validity in such a claim?
As for the interior, I think certain aspects of it are lightyears ahead of the tC, and I love the dual-tiered gauges: thinking about driving a car without it is hard. The transmission (same as the RSX-S) is short in track and incredibly smooth, except for one thing: gear three has a huge tendency to pop out or grind sometimes. Many, many Si owners are experiencing this, and Honda refuses to acknowledge it as a problem. The dealerships won't touch it because "it's not a problem", and some owners have "fixed" it or "put a bandaid on it" by putting Amsoil MTF in. Personally, while this is annoying, I'm more concerned that it is damaging the car in the long run, and I don't want that to happen.
Also, the interior of the Si is incredibly scratch prone. Someone on 8th Civic put a nice, non-removable scratch in his dash from a cardboard pizza box: no joke. The interior is also quite noticeably rattly (mine is at least), and it seems everytime I get one fixed, another appears.
I know the Si isn't really comperable to a N/A tC, but when I was shopping for a car, I wanted an EX coupe with navigation, and ended up getting the Si. I love the power and would miss it dearly, but I need to hear some (honest) advice about what the tC is like. I've read threads so I know some of the problems, but if I do this, I want to make sure I know of the problems before.
How are the Scion dealerships (particularly in MN) in terms of business and service? My experience has shown me Honda dealers are worse than Chevy dealers.
I guess I'm just at a crossroads and I'm not sure what to do. Personally, I think the Si is a far greater car (for obvious reasons), than the tC, but I want something that is going to last the test of time, and with the interior the way it is, and the potential problem of that 3rd gear, paired with the fact that Honda's refusal to acknowledge it as a problem (for years with the RSX even), just doesn't sit well with me.
What can you all tell me about the tC: things to avoid, things to get, common problems, issues, good things, bad things? compared to the Civic? I noticed when I sat in the gorgeous RS3 sitting in my dealer's showroom, I didn't particularly care for the clutch action or the gear track, but without test driving, I suppose its impossible to know. It sure did feel like my friend's Corolla (and that isn't a good thing).
Thanks guys.
-Mike
EDIT: Wow, the responses are flying in! I meant to mention, when buying/ordering the car, I'm pricing it online with the options I "want", can anyone tell me what optios are worth it and what ones definately aren't? Or maybe give me a better description of some of them?
I currently drive a gorgeous 2006 Fiji Blue Pearl Honda Civic Si (that's a mouthful!), and I adore it, but there some major things that I just can't seem to get over.
The exterior of the car is flawless, and I like it more than I like the tC's exterior, to be honest, but the paint is honestly among the worst I have ever seen. Sure it looks gorgeous freshly waxed, but to put it into perspective, it isn't rare for we Civic owners to have paint chips down to the bare sheet metal. I've heard the tC's are the same, is there any validity in such a claim?
As for the interior, I think certain aspects of it are lightyears ahead of the tC, and I love the dual-tiered gauges: thinking about driving a car without it is hard. The transmission (same as the RSX-S) is short in track and incredibly smooth, except for one thing: gear three has a huge tendency to pop out or grind sometimes. Many, many Si owners are experiencing this, and Honda refuses to acknowledge it as a problem. The dealerships won't touch it because "it's not a problem", and some owners have "fixed" it or "put a bandaid on it" by putting Amsoil MTF in. Personally, while this is annoying, I'm more concerned that it is damaging the car in the long run, and I don't want that to happen.
Also, the interior of the Si is incredibly scratch prone. Someone on 8th Civic put a nice, non-removable scratch in his dash from a cardboard pizza box: no joke. The interior is also quite noticeably rattly (mine is at least), and it seems everytime I get one fixed, another appears.
I know the Si isn't really comperable to a N/A tC, but when I was shopping for a car, I wanted an EX coupe with navigation, and ended up getting the Si. I love the power and would miss it dearly, but I need to hear some (honest) advice about what the tC is like. I've read threads so I know some of the problems, but if I do this, I want to make sure I know of the problems before.
How are the Scion dealerships (particularly in MN) in terms of business and service? My experience has shown me Honda dealers are worse than Chevy dealers.
I guess I'm just at a crossroads and I'm not sure what to do. Personally, I think the Si is a far greater car (for obvious reasons), than the tC, but I want something that is going to last the test of time, and with the interior the way it is, and the potential problem of that 3rd gear, paired with the fact that Honda's refusal to acknowledge it as a problem (for years with the RSX even), just doesn't sit well with me.
What can you all tell me about the tC: things to avoid, things to get, common problems, issues, good things, bad things? compared to the Civic? I noticed when I sat in the gorgeous RS3 sitting in my dealer's showroom, I didn't particularly care for the clutch action or the gear track, but without test driving, I suppose its impossible to know. It sure did feel like my friend's Corolla (and that isn't a good thing).
Thanks guys.
-Mike
EDIT: Wow, the responses are flying in! I meant to mention, when buying/ordering the car, I'm pricing it online with the options I "want", can anyone tell me what optios are worth it and what ones definately aren't? Or maybe give me a better description of some of them?
05-25-2007, 01:41 PM
#2
Hey man, the SI is a great car and obviously here on this site you'll here the TC is great also. The TC has a paint chip problem also but it's not as bad or doesn't seem to be as bad as the Civics are. As for the interio, The TC looks and flows smoothly. You can alway mod it yourself like everyone else here has including me. The TC does have a hatch rattle though that everyone complains about but i fixed mine in 2 seconds and its NEVER came back. As for power, strap on a turbo and you'll be able to beat the SI. With the money saved from an SI price to the TC price, put a turbo on and you're even at price. In general the service at my toyota dealer has been nothing but great. Very nice and friendy and they give me free stuff all the time. As for the TC, there are no issues with it that i have heard of that would scare someone away from buying it. Just look around the site and check out a few of the modded cars on the site. They're all hot looking and in my opinion, when they're hooked up right, they look better then the SI, but thats jsut my opinion. Definetly get the ground effects kit from scion. Makes the car look a million times better. The spoiler is up to you. I have the pedestal spoiler on mine with ground effects. Other then that, i personally wouldnt buy any other accessories or add ons. Thats just me though. Just follow your heart man. You'll make the right decision. Good luck..... PM (private message) me with any other questions you have. Later
05-25-2007, 02:06 PM
#3
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yeah, the paint is weak on the tC. the front will chip and scratch with normal driving. of course you could avoid the problem by keeping 300' between you and the car ahead of you, but we all know how hard that is to do all the time.
i estimate that the interior plastics in the tC are about the same grade as those in the civic. the civic will be a bit better in fit and finish, so if you switch to a tC, you're probably going to notice just as many, if not more rattles. i do have an '05, so i'm not sure if they resolved the issues for '07, but that's a lot of issues. everything is laid out really nicely in the tC though, so I can't imagine you'd miss the 2-tier guages much. unless you like to know you speed in the middle of a turn.
the clutch travel is fairly long on the tC, and so are the throws. i put a short shifter in a couple of years ago, and i love it. the shifting in the tC is nice, but not as nice as the si. under hard acceleration i get locked out of third gear sometimes, and it causes me to grind a bit, but as long as you don't force it into gear i don't think it really hurts anything. add in a trd clutch with the short shifter, and i think the pedestrian shift feel pretty much goes away.
buying my tC was a really nice, hassle free experience. i basically sold myself on this car. i test drove one, and without talking to a salesperson i decided on it. the price of the car is set, so i just called around to find the dealership with the lowest dealer fees and ordered from them. they even knocked a couple of points off the finance apr for me. delivery went smoothly as well, so overall it was a great experience.
apart from the RS, the tC is only available in one trim level. the only factory options are auto trans and side-curtain airbags. the dealers offer myriad accesories however, and that's truely where they make their money. i'd avoid the dealer installed options as the markup on them is just short of insane.
if i switched from an si to a tC, i'd be disappointed. the tC was designed to dominate the price point just below the si. it competes with the lesser civic models, nissan sentra, mazda 3, etc... it does well against those models, but from an si it would be a step down. i love my tC, and i'm glad i bought it, but my advice to you is to deal with the minor problems of your si, and remember that most sub-$26k compacts have the same issues. i hope this helped
i estimate that the interior plastics in the tC are about the same grade as those in the civic. the civic will be a bit better in fit and finish, so if you switch to a tC, you're probably going to notice just as many, if not more rattles. i do have an '05, so i'm not sure if they resolved the issues for '07, but that's a lot of issues. everything is laid out really nicely in the tC though, so I can't imagine you'd miss the 2-tier guages much. unless you like to know you speed in the middle of a turn.
the clutch travel is fairly long on the tC, and so are the throws. i put a short shifter in a couple of years ago, and i love it. the shifting in the tC is nice, but not as nice as the si. under hard acceleration i get locked out of third gear sometimes, and it causes me to grind a bit, but as long as you don't force it into gear i don't think it really hurts anything. add in a trd clutch with the short shifter, and i think the pedestrian shift feel pretty much goes away.
buying my tC was a really nice, hassle free experience. i basically sold myself on this car. i test drove one, and without talking to a salesperson i decided on it. the price of the car is set, so i just called around to find the dealership with the lowest dealer fees and ordered from them. they even knocked a couple of points off the finance apr for me. delivery went smoothly as well, so overall it was a great experience.
apart from the RS, the tC is only available in one trim level. the only factory options are auto trans and side-curtain airbags. the dealers offer myriad accesories however, and that's truely where they make their money. i'd avoid the dealer installed options as the markup on them is just short of insane.
if i switched from an si to a tC, i'd be disappointed. the tC was designed to dominate the price point just below the si. it competes with the lesser civic models, nissan sentra, mazda 3, etc... it does well against those models, but from an si it would be a step down. i love my tC, and i'm glad i bought it, but my advice to you is to deal with the minor problems of your si, and remember that most sub-$26k compacts have the same issues. i hope this helped
05-25-2007, 02:22 PM
#4
Well I have a 2006 and I dont have any interior dash rattles or anything. Just the hatch rattle in which i fixed that in 2 seconds with some rubber stripping from Home Depot. As for my interior at least, i have Zero rattles and all the parts are pretty solid and fit perfect. I have taken my car apart hundreds of times on the inside to know and realize thats the parts are very strong, dont scratch easy, and go back together perfect everytime.
05-25-2007, 02:25 PM
#5
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i'm glad your interior is top-notch. 
i agree though. the dash pieces were designed to be taken apart and put back together, and the fit and finish is better than you'd usually see at this price point.
i agree though. the dash pieces were designed to be taken apart and put back together, and the fit and finish is better than you'd usually see at this price point.
05-25-2007, 03:34 PM
#7
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Re: Considering a tC. Have an 06 Si.
Originally Posted by Special_Ringpop
Sure it looks gorgeous freshly waxed, but to put it into perspective, it isn't rare for we Civic owners to have paint chips down to the bare sheet metal. I've heard the tC's are the same, is there any validity in such a claim?
Originally Posted by Special_Ringpop
As for the interior, I think certain aspects of it are lightyears ahead of the tC, and I love the dual-tiered gauges: thinking about driving a car without it is hard. The transmission (same as the RSX-S) is short in track and incredibly smooth, except for one thing: gear three has a huge tendency to pop out or grind sometimes. Many, many Si owners are experiencing this, and Honda refuses to acknowledge it as a problem. The dealerships won't touch it because "it's not a problem", and some owners have "fixed" it or "put a bandaid on it" by putting Amsoil MTF in. Personally, while this is annoying, I'm more concerned that it is damaging the car in the long run, and I don't want that to happen.
Originally Posted by Special_Ringpop
Also, the interior of the Si is incredibly scratch prone. Someone on 8th Civic put a nice, non-removable scratch in his dash from a cardboard pizza box: no joke. The interior is also quite noticeably rattly (mine is at least), and it seems everytime I get one fixed, another appears.
Originally Posted by Special_Ringpop
How are the Scion dealerships (particularly in MN) in terms of business and service? My experience has shown me Honda dealers are worse than Chevy dealers.
Originally Posted by Special_Ringpop
What can you all tell me about the tC: things to avoid, things to get, common problems, issues, good things, bad things? compared to the Civic? I noticed when I sat in the gorgeous RS3 sitting in my dealer's showroom, I didn't particularly care for the clutch action or the gear track, but without test driving, I suppose its impossible to know. It sure did feel like my friend's Corolla (and that isn't a good thing).
Bad things about the tC, rattles (but a lot of cars do now adays), high RPM cruising on the expressway, not so good gas milleage/performance pay off, in my area almost every other tC wants to race, if youre used to the Si's handling then the tC may feel like a boat b/c it's heavy and the car will let you know that, plus the steering feel I'm sure is better on the Si. AFtermarket suspension wuold probably help but there is not "mod" for steering feel.
1 last thing: K20 > 2AZ
05-25-2007, 08:59 PM
#8
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After reading that, I don't think you'd be any happier with the tC, and you might even like it less than the Civic Si. If you do go ahead and decide to try a tC, you could probably find someone who'd trade theirs for your Si, so you wouldn't have to spend anything if you don't mind a slightly used car.
05-25-2007, 09:16 PM
#10
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All the compliants that you posted about your Si, I've heard people complain about with the tC (except for that 3rd gear thing). I like the exterior styling of the tC more though. I haven't had the problems with the rattles, and to me the only part that stratches easily is the lower part of the door panel.
I love how everything pops off in the interior pretty easily. I've had my center console color matched and will be getting a CF gauge cluster very soon.
Whatever your decision let us know which way you end up deciding
I love how everything pops off in the interior pretty easily. I've had my center console color matched and will be getting a CF gauge cluster very soon.
Whatever your decision let us know which way you end up deciding
05-25-2007, 10:41 PM
#11
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i would say stick with SI.. you already own it, dont downgrade to a tc.. my brother has an 06 SI & it is a fun little car to drive.. the tc is a nice car but you will miss the accelaration & response from the SI
05-25-2007, 10:46 PM
#12
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I also would say stick with the Si, the difference in drivetrain will surprise you (I definitely like my TSX motor/tranny more then the TC drivetrain, its not even close). All the problems you stated with the Si are present in the TC.
05-26-2007, 01:26 AM
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The civics after the 2000 the Exterior styl'in has gone down hill literally..the EP's & EK's styl'in were the BEST..IMO!!...
The current Exterior looks like someone came by and Chopped the bose off it!...Just odd looking...The 2-tier dash is Kinda "whack"....
Yea Pre 2000 Exterior Rules!!
The Performance Part....Depends on what you want!!
I am Hella happy w/ the tC performance & options the Ride..
Mine "never" had any of those Rattles or Breaking Glass or any other problems I seen...
Ok..I wrote too much So I will stop..I can go on & on...haha
The current Exterior looks like someone came by and Chopped the bose off it!...Just odd looking...The 2-tier dash is Kinda "whack"....
Yea Pre 2000 Exterior Rules!!
The Performance Part....Depends on what you want!!
I am Hella happy w/ the tC performance & options the Ride..
Mine "never" had any of those Rattles or Breaking Glass or any other problems I seen...
Ok..I wrote too much So I will stop..I can go on & on...haha
05-26-2007, 05:02 AM
#19
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stay the Si imo. the tC excels the most at being a great deal in its category, performance-wise you're already a tier up and the other problems you mentioned with the honda probably aren't going to be significantly fixed by going to this toyota.
05-26-2007, 07:08 AM
#20
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I love my tC. but I think it depends alot on your goals. If you plan to stay stock no matter what car you end up with, KEEP THE SI. It is a far superior car to the tC.
But if you plan to heavily mod either, go with the tC. The support on the car show scene from Scion VIP and all the car clubs is amazing. I am extremely happy with Scion as a company and Toyota is taking over in the automotive industry.
Civics are played out on the modding of them. The tC is somewhat fresh and a new face.
Either way, both CAN be enjoyable cars.
But if you plan to heavily mod either, go with the tC. The support on the car show scene from Scion VIP and all the car clubs is amazing. I am extremely happy with Scion as a company and Toyota is taking over in the automotive industry.
Civics are played out on the modding of them. The tC is somewhat fresh and a new face.
Either way, both CAN be enjoyable cars.