BIGRKtC

For all you who say its slow, name a faster car at $16.850. Not to mention, this car with mods packs a power punch(read the new Modified Mag) and with suspension its pulling G's up there with high end sportscars (read the new Sports Compact Car Mag).

ivandrios

i think its quick, my friend has a auto tc and when i drive it i think its the slowest car out there but when i get into my car which is manual, i love it...like everyone here has said its fun to drive it..

BIGRKtC

I think the problem is that this car is driven by to many late teens to college age kids, who were used to driving their rich daddy's M3 S4 or CLK AMG. They don't realize that 90% of the cars on the road are not seeing 1/4 mile times in the mid to low 15's especially in the price range. There are many people on this site who are speed fanatics and have the money to be. They still by tCs because its a hot car and can be made just as fast as a $45,000 eurosports car. (these are the members who are blowing the big cash on engine builds, and turbos) Those of us who don't have M3 money never expected to buy a car with M3 performance (at least not in the real world). In conclusion, stop hatin' on your own car! If you think its slow, either you have an auto, or you just don't know how to drive.

ivandrios

well said lol

all4degame

I've driven both, the MT is quite a bit quicker than the AT because of the insanely short gearing the MT has. As for my car, i think its quick enough to have fun.

PrivateTucker

I vote fast. It's the fastest thing i've ever driven.

wibblywobbly

Joins the "fun but not fast club"

if you think it's fast then you haven't driven a truly fast car.

Garage1217

iTrader: (5)

it is quick but not a camry. Shares the camry engine but not the platform. The engines does have lots of potential even though it is an F designated head which in toyota lingo means an "economy" head. To bad they never made a 2AZ-GE hahaha "G designation is a performance head" Oh yeah and get away from the stupid timing chains!!!

Forgot to add most of the piston failures I have seen on this and other sites are due to to much timing / detonation. Also you guys are trying to run 9.6 cr at 7-10 psi +++ with a n/a map! You guys need to get away from the darn n/a fuel map and install the trd map for the sc, hint hint... Also 550cc injectors are a must under boost with this large displacement 2.4L especially turning 250+whp. You guys are running your injectors at 100% duty on your wussie 370cc stockers!! grrrr... heck even the old 4agze sc injectors off the 1.6L ran 390's stock at 7 psi only turning 170 crank hp on the ae101's! 400cc that come with the trd sc kit are just BAIRLY enough to cut it and they give you those tiny squirters to try to eliminate running more boost.


ok end rant haha.

jmiller20874

There's only one guy on here that has had piston trouble, that I know of, and that was the guy that got screwed by ScionSpeed. 9.6CR is low enough for 10PSI as long as you have proper tuning through a piggyback, running with 93 octane pump gas is no issue. Anyone doing boost over 6PSI has upgraded their injectors AFAIK.

What's wrong with timing chains?

Garage1217

iTrader: (5)

The zpi kit uses stock injectors, guess I am more pointing the finger at them "the stage 0" Also piggy back ecms are a cheapo bandaid. I will tell ya now and I am sure in the next few months people will figure it out, Install the trd map for the sc kit if your going to run 6-10 psi on this car and your lifes will be allot better, The trd map will be very use friendly to boost and help keep your engine together How do I know? Lets just say I have been tuning toyotas for a little to long.

Timing chains? Oh boy... They are ok I guess for street cars but not my choice for racing. "especially small displacement engines" Guess it is more of a personal preference but I think they are peices of crap and also another pointer is toyota / yamaha based engines only use chains on there economy based heads / engines. All race inspired motors from toyota / yamaha or pure race engines from those companies use belts "and no I do not consider the 2zzge from the celica a race motor, I hate that raspy turd but I guess it was good enough for lotus"

jmiller20874

OK, I agree on the piggyback = bandaid comparison especially with the seemingly hack-proof Toyota ECU. On the other hand, maybe 1% of everyday tuners can afford a standalone or even tune it if they can afford it.

You have any inside info as to what this reflash for the S/C does? Come on, spill the beans.

FLINT

to those of u that our car is slow, just b glad your not in an xb, xa, or hybrid. those rides r slow. plus he said DONT COMPARE TC TO CARS NOT IN OUR CLASS! that ish doesnt count.

Garage1217

iTrader: (5)

The flash gives the ecm a new ignition map and fuel map. That is a huge duh and everyone should already know that if they have been around forced induction long enough. It also sets the ecm to react with slightly more drastic measures when the new funky knock sensor starts to pick up detonation. They have to do this because of the large quality differences in fuel across the usa. They do not want someone to get crappy 91 octane and blow there motor. Basically the same things as any forced induction ecm does over its n/a counterpart. You can take any number of examples to see how toyota varies there programming.

TRD guys while seeming to be retarded really are not when it comes down to making a reliable product. They are giving the masses a supercharger for a car that was not built to have one. Knowing this they would not go through the hassle of an ecm flash / injector change just to run 7 psi if the engines current map could support it without issues. In reality trd is giving everyone a great base to start with if you’re looking at boosting your car.

Something else to add, most every toyota forced induction map produced usually can handle 5-7 psi more than your base pressure level. That means in theory "will know more when my tc and sc arrive next week and I start to play" that you should be able to run 10psi on 91 octane with the trd map and up to 14 psi on even larger injectors and race gas before having to go standalone. That is theory only at this point but a very educated theory.

And as stated in another post at 10 psi I would reccomend going intercooled with the F trim vortech supercharger trd is giving us. That should net you right around 200-210 whp at 10 psi with a small intercooler. The mega rice 4" thick 80"x'120" super ghetto fabulous intercoolers guaranteed to slow responce, add 20 pounds and cause you to cut your bumper should be kicked to the curb at 10-14 psi unless your turbo / sc is an in-efficient peice of crap which the vortect is not Also another good choice for those 10-14 psi guys is a water to air setup.

Last part of my rant, wish those turbo companies like zp.. zod.. whatever would get rid of the darn external waste gate. My god 99.9999% of all the scion guys will never run even close to the amount of boost that an external will allow you. Go to a friggin internal setup and a better turbo like a gt2871 for our cars. I would rather get rid of the bling factor of the kits and actually go with better components. Not saying the 16G is junk but there are allot better choices out there if they get rid of the parts that are not a necessity and more show. They could produce a much better performing kit that way and keep the cost the same.

Some examples to compare ecm maps and how toyota tuned the engines....

22re - 22rtec
4age - 4agze
7mge - 7mgte
3sge - 3sgte
2jzge - 2jzgte

jmiller20874

Reason I was asking 'bout the reflash is it seems 40HP is awefully low for 7psi, are they retarding the timing or just under rating the actual output (I'm going with under rating).

KevinxB

Neck and neck with a Cooper S? The tC is a few hundred pounds heavier, has less hp, and is down a gear in the transmission. Granted, the tC is much cheaper, but how do you figure they're neck and neck as far as performance? See here:

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coup...0502_ordinary/

The Cooper ran 0-60 in 6.4 seconds compared to the tC's 8.0. The tC also took 15.9 seconds to finish the 1/4; the MINI did it in 14.8. I'd hardly call that neck and neck.

engifineer

They arent neck and neck.. but whoever was driving the tC and ran those times must have been draggin a bag of bricks. You can find plenty of timeslips showing 15.6 for the 1/4, and even a decent driver can hit 7.5 0-60 in a tC.

KevinxB

Yeah, I don't usually expect magazine figures to be spot-on. But if both figures are from the same magazine and especially if both are from the same comparison test, you can get a general idea of the performance gap between two cars.

Garage1217

iTrader: (5)

I am going with timing and lots more fuel in the lower rpm to mid range "200crank being tested on a bone stock engine, exhaust, intake etc...". That is the only sure way to protect the engine in case of detonation under the higher cr. You also have to factor in parasitic loss of the sc which I have seen on eaton roots blowers to be upwords of 20-25hp. at 12-14 psi.

Say we are getting 18hp of parasitic loss, that means on a stock tc the engine is actually trying to put out 218 crank hp but will only show you 200 crank. Knowing that the parasitic loss will not increase very much running reasonable levels of boost "10-15 psi" over stock and knowing that the engine is trying to put out 58hp above stock before the sc parasitic loss deduction, that comes out to an average of 8.3hp per psi on the trd map. So going to 10 psi should net you 25-30hp. Intercool that charge and you should be netting 28-33hp in theory. Up her to 12 psi and your looking at 40-45hp increase over stock. Even at 10 psi on this type of supercharger your bottom end should improve allot as well since this type of blower produces boost based on rpm woohoo!

Now take zpi's kit on the stock ecm for example. They got what. 230 whp somthing hp out of 6 psi? That means a crank hp of 250 "example" with lots of other mods like intake, exhaust, header etc..

Now take into account the f-trim blower is not awsome but it is efficient for a supercharger. If you were to stick on the trd sc without flashing the ecm, at 7 psi with the same mods as the zpi kit, the car should be running right around the same 230whp and 250 crank hp.

Now take away the parasitic loss of the blower and your at 212whp. and 232 crank. Now install the trd map made to keep the engine together which pulls ignition timing and runs her pig rich to be safe under boost and I could definitly see the trd supercharger putting out 200 crank hp on a stock tc.

Flamming turd burritos batman! I think I nailed it haha!

BIGRKtC

For all of you who keep spitting these rediculous tC numbers
https://www.scionlife.com/scion/tc/datasheet.pdf
It clearly states a 0-60 time of 7.4 (I've seen as low as 7.2 in other magazine reviews, never more than 7.4) and a 1/4 mile time of 15.6. I don't know where you get this 8 sec time from but I've read this article and the mini they tested was a full .6 sec faster than the same car they had previously tested. The first motor trend test of the mini S was 7.2 sec and that's what most magizines will tell you. The cars are neck and neck. Your car is neck and neck with forced induction vehicles that cost thousands more. I think that's impressive. Stop $#!tting on our car.

KevinxB

Wow, touchy? There's a difference between "$#!tting" on a car and stating facts. As far as the "rediculous" numbers, an unbiased magazine has no reason to make one car look better than another. But of course, only the magazine that got the slower times has "rediculous" numbers for your car.

Back to the MINI; if you really read the Motor Trend article, you should have noticed this blurb:

The Cooper S was updated in 2005 with more horsepower and different gear ratios, hence the lower numbers when compared to previous model years. That would be why it "ran away from" all the other cars in the test, including the tC.