Except additives that increase octane cost $$$ (which is why higher octane fuels cost more at the pump), so they're just going to take those additives *out* of the current gasolone when they add the ethanol, to give the same octane rating.

 

good point.....

 

It's called an incentive, to make using cleaner technology in their best interests.

 

e10... the Ethanol burns cleaner and faster resulting in lower fuel economy but more horsepower.


The additive is no reason for spiked gas prices, the oil companies are just PO'd. Ethanol is much cheaper and is a renewable resource and if we can't get hydrogen down I'm pretty sure we're going e85 (this takes minimal modification to the bulk of our cars today) or hybrid (electricity is easy to work with, knowledge and availability is pretty easy) in the NEAR future as with fuel consumption rates all of the world's supply of oil should be completely depleted within the next 20-30 years.

 

Actually, the additive is one of the reasons for the recent price hike. Federal regulations against the old additive MTBE (which caused water pollution) and the requirement of Ethanol as a replacement has created a bit of a situation.

Ethanol cannot be put into the gasoline pipelines because it absorbs water, therefore it must be trucked to the refineries. Also, when Ethanol is introduced into the gasoline storage tanks, it removes deposits that line the walls of the containers, and the impurities contaminate the gasoline.
-As a result, the tanks must be cleaned PRIOR to the introduction of the new additive.

It's not as simple as you make it seem.

 

Productivity should go up, prices should be lower after a while yet I doubt we'll see prices below 2.50 again.

 

^^ glad I have a motorcycle

 

::shakes my fist at joo::

 

don't call me a jew...haha

 

You may be right, but I just don't get it. If the engine is producing more power per quirt of the injector, then you should be able to let off the throttle some and get better milage per unit of liquid.

 

Yeah, this is when I am really glad to have a bike too, i have been working the last 2 weeks just to finish my bike and get it on the road......just in time!!

 

1) I think that'll only work with autos (unless you're in a high gear/neutral/ride the clutch)
2) Rarely anyone drives like that.
3) Agressive driving already accounts for 5-10% mileage loss city drivine and 15-30% freeway driving (numbers are around there... i forget).

 

No, you don't get what I mean.

If there's MORE power coming out of the engine for a certain amount of fuel burned, I have to push on the throttle LESS to go the same speed (against air drag). It doesn't matter what kind of transmission I have.

It seems obvious to me if the car is getting 10% less milage on the same amount of fuel, then the engine is producing 10% less power.

I saw a lot of web sites that said there is a horspower reduction with e10, but it's "not noticeable."

I claim BS. 10% less horsepower bites.

 

BTW, I used to live in Cali, and I remember how badly my cars ran on the fuel out there, and how much better they ran as soon as I filled up across the border. Now we all have to use Cali fuel.

I'm POed

 

If you want to go with that argument please explain to me why 400+ hp cars get such good mileage (that's hyperbole incase you didn't catch that).

The ethanol burns up quicker resulting in more power (power = energy/time), which means faster acceleration. It has nothing to do with constant velocity at which the engine should be eating up a minimal amount of gas as it is.

You can go on and complain. Whether you like it or not you will see the end of fossil fuel within your lifetime. Get used to it. Driving is a privilege, not a luxury. You'll have to get kicks doing something else in about 20 years when all our fuel is gone.

 

OK, let's get some basic physics out of the way, guys.

(1) The octane rating of a fuel tells how well it resists detonation, not how much "power" the fuel has.

(2) Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline does, so to get the same amount of power delivered you have to use more of it.

(3) Gasoline with 10% ethanol added should deliver close to the same power in an engine with an ECU that handles it well.

(4) E-10 will educe the MPG by about 3% with EVERYTHING else remaining the same.

If anyone wants to actually learn something about gasoline, ethanol, additives, milage, energy content, etc. here is a very good place to start:

http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...etin/motorgas/

That will give you about 50-60 pages of tech info. Once you have that down pat, you'll know something about gasoline...

(BTW, "E-10" is what is known as an "oxygenated" gasoline... you can find out why, at that link.)

Enjoy! :D

 

This statement is inexact, especially as it pertains to the tC. Please clarify:

A. Does "close to the same power" mean "less power, but not much less?"
====i If so, how much less?

B. Does "in an engine with an ECU that handles it well" include the engine in the tC?
====i If the tC doesn't have one of those special ECUs, then what happens when the tC handles it badly?


I remember the night and day difference coming across the Cali border and getting fresh non-oxygenated stuff. That was in a Saab Turbo. I also remember the same difference in my friend's v8 Camero. It was a non-cali certified car, and it knocked and pinged something awful on the oxygenated gas. As soon as it had real gasoline again, it was it's former monster self.

I noticed today the pres said he told the EPA to hold off on the ethanol junk. Maybe we'll have real gas for a few months more.

 

Heheheheheheh...

Actually, that statement is purposely inexact - that's because I don't know (A) how much less power, or (B) any details about the tC ECU, you'd have to ask Toyota.

My vehicles have ALL disliked E-10, including my xB.

As to 'holding off' on the E-10, many parts of the county are already there...

Welcome to the future...
________________
Tom

"The future has arrived sooner than we expected - and in the wrong order..."

 

According to Toyota, all passenger vehicles, including the tC, were designed to use E10. They had to so that the tC could be sold in California and cities and states that use E10. I forgot where I read it, but all passenger vehicles manufactured on or after 1998 had to be E10 compatible whether or not they are sold in states that conform to CARB standards.

 

So why is it that all we are hearing about is, the gas prices are getting/going to be higher. But not, everything is going to be switched over to E-10?