Notices
Scion tC 1G Owners Lounge
2005-2010 [ANT10]

IDIOTIC QUESTIONS. [riding clutch, toe-heel shifting]

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 24, 2004 | 01:01 PM
  #1  
Hatchback_Fiend's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 25
Default IDIOTIC QUESTIONS. [riding clutch, toe-heel shifting]

What does riding the clutch mean? Is that like the dope who plants his feet on the clutch everytime he breaks? And what is toe-heel shifting? I find it impossible to do (if it means what I think it means). I've been driving stick for about 6 years, but I don't know what all these things mean...
Old Sep 24, 2004 | 01:15 PM
  #2  
TheDanger's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,249
Default Re: IDIOTIC QUESTIONS.

Originally Posted by Hatchback Fiend
What does riding the clutch mean? Is that like the dope who plants his feet on the clutch everytime he breaks? And what is toe-heel shifting? I find it impossible to do (if it means what I think it means). I've been driving stick for about 6 years, but I don't know what all these things mean...
Riding the clutch to me means anyone who rests their foot on the clutch during driving, or could release it at a stop light...pretty much use the clutch when not needed. The other thing I dont know but I guess pretty much what it says?
Old Sep 24, 2004 | 01:22 PM
  #3  
Aquakeeper's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
Strictly Scionized
SL Member
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 110
From: Harford County
Default

Toe-Heal Shifting is essentially double clutching the transmission. Its when u don't use the clutch at all and shift only by matching engine speed with driveline speed.

Its vary bad and will turn your gearbox it scrap metal in the future.
Old Sep 24, 2004 | 01:51 PM
  #4  
the_saint's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
Scinergy
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 640
Default

Heel-toe shifting <--*click me
Old Sep 24, 2004 | 08:32 PM
  #5  
Aquakeeper's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
Strictly Scionized
SL Member
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 110
From: Harford County
Default

I see no real point in doing that....Maybe if someone is racing there box around tight corners or somthing down a mountain. Eitherway...its gunna roll over like the box it is
Old Sep 25, 2004 | 07:07 PM
  #6  
CamoBox's Avatar
Junior Member

10 Year Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10
From: MAFB, NJ
Default

Heel -Toe shifting can be done while using the clutch and actually helps the life of your clutch. It is done while downshifting and uses a little blip of the throttle to get the engine rpms up before releasing the clutch, creating a smother transition to a lower gear. It is used in racing and helps prevent a sudden weight transfer in the vehicle. You are supposed to have your toes on the brake pedal and use your heel to touch the throttle.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 03:33 AM
  #7  
wOoOzZy's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
From: Miami, FL
Default

Thought this might be a good spot to ask about matching revs while down-shifting. As far as I know this means reving the engine before you downshift to the rpm that the next gear would go to. And this would also stop the motion transfer. Matching revs also incorporates heel-toe shifting right?

Also, what advantage (if any) does a short ram intake have over a CAI?
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 10:10 PM
  #8  
llamuh's Avatar
Junior Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 25
From: Magnolia, AR
Default

short ram and CAI both have advantages and disadvantages over each other. with a short ram you are losing some low-end torque. some argue that this is purely because of the differences in tube length and sometimes diameter, rather than the fact that cooler air is denser. Short rams do have issues with heatsoak, but i couldnt tell you how much of a problem it really is. CAI seem to have more broad gains over the powerband without as much torque loss, but arent that great on the top end. with a CAI, there is also the worry of hydrolock. a lot of people laugh at hydrolock and say it will never happen.. well it happened to me with my teg. when deciding on an intake you should have a power goal in mind that would benefit you the most for whatever application(type of racing/driving). another consideriation is the AEM V2 intake.. supposedly its a mixture of cold air and short ram, due to the tube length and varied diameters. for my EP this was the best option. there is still the problem of heatsoak, but id rather have a little hot air than having to worry about hydrolock.

hope this helps. sorry if it isnt composed very well.. im a little scatter-brained.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 10:23 PM
  #9  
chucksu's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,170
From: Navarre, FL
Default

Originally Posted by wOoOzZy
Thought this might be a good spot to ask about matching revs while down-shifting. As far as I know this means reving the engine before you downshift to the rpm that the next gear would go to. And this would also stop the motion transfer. Matching revs also incorporates heel-toe shifting right?

Also, what advantage (if any) does a short ram intake have over a CAI?
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26514
Old Sep 30, 2004 | 02:17 AM
  #10  
wOoOzZy's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
From: Miami, FL
Default

Thanks for the replies! And sorry about not searching. Asking about the ShorRam/CAI was just an after-thought and I didn't think about it.

Now, can someone answer my question about matching revs?
Old Sep 30, 2004 | 02:24 AM
  #11  
the_saint's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
Scinergy
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 640
Default

Originally Posted by wOoOzZy
Now, can someone answer my question about matching revs?
Originally Posted by CamoBox
It is done while downshifting and uses a little blip of the throttle to get the engine rpms up before releasing the clutch, creating a smoother transition to a lower gear. It is used in racing and helps prevent a sudden weight transfer in the vehicle.
Old Sep 30, 2004 | 05:16 AM
  #12  
wOoOzZy's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 282
From: Miami, FL
Default

Thanks the the relay.
Old Oct 3, 2004 | 05:34 PM
  #13  
DuMa's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SoCal tC Club
SL Member
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,616
From: Orange County, CA
Default

is it still 'riding the clutch' while you're using it while you're slowing to a stop? i wouldnt think so but i dont really know for sure.
Old Oct 3, 2004 | 05:48 PM
  #14  
empleh's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 331
From: Hawaii at heart, L.A. in
Default

short ram and CAI both have advantages and disadvantages over each other. with a short ram you are losing some low-end torque. some argue that this is purely because of the differences in tube length and sometimes diameter, rather than the fact that cooler air is denser. Short rams do have issues with heatsoak, but i couldnt tell you how much of a problem it really is. CAI seem to have more broad gains over the powerband without as much torque loss, but arent that great on the top end. with a CAI, there is also the worry of hydrolock. a lot of people laugh at hydrolock and say it will never happen.. well it happened to me with my teg. when deciding on an intake you should have a power goal in mind that would benefit you the most for whatever application(type of racing/driving). another consideriation is the AEM V2 intake.. supposedly its a mixture of cold air and short ram, due to the tube length and varied diameters. for my EP this was the best option. there is still the problem of heatsoak, but id rather have a little hot air than having to worry about hydrolock.
i'm pretty sure it's the other way around. the cold air is good for high end, and the short ram is good for low end.....either way, all the research i've done has suggested that cold air intakes are really good dyno mods....but on the track the short ram will outperform it. dunno though, i'm no expert. but, because the CAI sucks air from so far away, it takes longer for the air to get to the engine, thus making it better for high end. i think the better way, is to get a short ram, and route cold air to it....just my theory anyways.
Old Oct 4, 2004 | 08:01 AM
  #15  
Chrno's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 137
From: San Jose, CA
Default

Originally Posted by Aquakeeper
I see no real point in doing that....Maybe if someone is racing there box around tight corners or somthing down a mountain. Eitherway...its gunna roll over like the box it is

heal n toe all da tyme rite here on Metcaf road n other mountains
Old Oct 5, 2004 | 10:26 PM
  #16  
k_splay's Avatar
Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 59
From: Lakewood, CO
Default

Originally Posted by DuMa
is it still 'riding the clutch' while you're using it while you're slowing to a stop? i wouldnt think so but i dont really know for sure.
no, that's called 'engine braking'... riding the clutch is when you keep your clutch in or near the friction zone while you're cruising and not shifting.

while I'm here, I'll mention something about 'heel-toe' technique that doesn't come off crystal clear in this thread.. the clutch pedal goes in with the left foot, right toe works the brake as your right heel works the gas pedal to match your revs while you downshift, clutch comes out as normal. That's Heel-Toe shifting.

-K
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 12:30 AM
  #17  
CamoBox's Avatar
Junior Member

10 Year Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10
From: MAFB, NJ
Default

Exactly what he said /\
l
Old Oct 7, 2004 | 12:52 AM
  #18  
mikochu's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
Premium Member
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,525
From: Orlando, Florida
Default

Originally Posted by k_splay
while I'm here, I'll mention something about 'heel-toe' technique that doesn't come off crystal clear in this thread.. the clutch pedal goes in with the left foot, right toe works the brake as your right heel works the gas pedal to match your revs while you downshift, clutch comes out as normal. That's Heel-Toe shifting.
I learned to heel-toe with double de-clutching (rev matching). Double de-clutching when you heel-toe will make your downshift much smoother. The difference is you shift into neutral, THEN rev match, then go into the gear you want...
Old Oct 8, 2004 | 05:40 PM
  #19  
imjonk's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 185
Default

while I'm here, I'll mention something about 'heel-toe' technique that doesn't come off crystal clear in this thread.. the clutch pedal goes in with the left foot, right toe works the brake as your right heel works the gas pedal to match your revs while you downshift, clutch comes out as normal. That's Heel-Toe shifting.
hmm.. i have to brake with my right toe and blip the throttle with my right heel. so i guess that's called toe heel shifting? i can't seem to do it the other way around with the way my feet and pedals are (or maybe i'm just not limber enough or something).

it's a pretty cool thing to do once you get the hang of it. engine braking has its function and double clutching/shifting has its purpose too. nothing like heel-toe shifting on a corner and then coming out of the turn fast instead of being bogged down in third. or something... fun.
Old Oct 8, 2004 | 08:56 PM
  #20  
k_splay's Avatar
Member
10 Year Member
5 Year Member
SL Member
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 59
From: Lakewood, CO
Default

Originally Posted by mikochu
I learned to heel-toe with double de-clutching (rev matching). Double de-clutching when you heel-toe will make your downshift much smoother. The difference is you shift into neutral, THEN rev match, then go into the gear you want...
well, from what I understand, double-clutching will only help the shift within the transmission -- and even then, there's lots of debate about modern transmissions with modern synchros not needing to be double-clutched. After all, that's they're exact function, it'nit? To sync the shafts within the transmission. SO, IMHO, double-clutching only complicates the experience of driving.

-K



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:20 PM.