http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...e-#page-anchor

scions are pretty low on the list

 

JD power is pretty low on my list as far a statistics and reliable information

 

JD power doesnt know what good is lol

 

I can understand the interior being low on the rating, but the powertrain? guh?

 

HaHa...Who is this infamous J.D. Power person???

At least SCION beats out Mazda on Powertrain Dependibility!!!

 

J.D. Power may not mean much to you average drivers but it's one of the most respected independent consumer report on all makes and model of cars sold in the US....even more so than Consumer Report. Manufacturers look at these ratings seriously and see what needs to improve. Obviously, Scion isn't doing that great and I agree with JD Power based on my own experience with my Tc. I should've gotten that corolla S.

 

JD is a joke.

 

The fact that we're below Chevy and Hummer shows that JD Power spews meaningless numbers nowadays. Even my father-in-law's $50k Vette had to go in for service 3 times in the first three months. When they got it home, the targa top wouldn't even come off.

 

So are wives, condoms, fast food employment, and the Washington Redskins....

 

how could lexus and toyota be so high on the list and not scion

 

"us average drivers" ......

To most that really know anything about statistics, the way JD, Consumer Reports, etc obtains info is pretty shakey at best. And no matter how well you do it with automotive records, the results are skewed. A BMW is not all that ultra reliable.. but people that own them tend to have more money, and a free maintenance and check up plan.. meaning the car is most likely getting checked up and maintained at a higher level than the average car... that is just one example. Also, what constitues an issue is always in question... that is the large flaw with any consumer reports type information.

The manufacturers pay close attention to it because the "average driver" thinks what they say is god, so it means more sales from them if JD says they are good. That info that the ratings comes from is partially based upon service records, which the manufacturer sees first.. meaning that is what tells them where the common problems with their products are.

 

To continue what Engi was saying, the ratings are also flawed because they aren't properly weighted. In terms of drivetrain reliability, "noisy syncros" are just as bad as "engine catches fire at idle". So what happened is a lot of whiners whined about noisy syncros, weak A/C, and creaky sunroofs, and BAM, we're near the bottom of the barrel.

 

JDP works like this...

JDP- this afternoon we will be bidding for the top spots

FORD- We will pay XXXX$ for number 2 on the list
GM- We will pay XXX$ for number 3 on the list

JDP- GOING ONCE< GOING TWICE SOLD!!

 

Whats better is that if people properly maintained he sunroof, they would have 1/10th the issues with them

 

engifiner and this so called dr....you guys crack me up. everything is flawed to some degree; we don't live in a perfect world. that's why there are such thing as bell-shaped curve, standard deviation, mean, average, range, etc....statistics, engi and dr. you don't think the guys at JD and CR take those into consideration? they don't get paid the big bucks for nothing. sure, they are errors but that's what all those numbers are for. i don't support JD or CR, but i respect what they do. some of their info may be too skewed but to say all of it is wrong or incorrect is "uneducated".....engin and dr. i assume both of you are professionals (engineer and a real DOCTOR i hope). it takes more than a guess here and there or assumption to make a valid statement. besides JD and CR, who do we have that we can rely a little upon to help us make an important decision when buying a car? journalists? tv ad? your salesman? or the millions of americans who sent in their report to JD and CR? you make the decision. peace out!

 

It's not millions, fella. They send out surveys to a certain number of people in each area, to establish an average. They might only poll 1,000 new car buyers out of 100,000 or more people in a given area. So much like the Nielsen ratings, we arrive at an "average" that reflects about 1% of the real world.

And no, they don't take variances into account. How do I know? I've done the J.D. Power survey 4 times.

 

JD have been in business since 1968. how many surveys do you think they might have sent out and gotten back since then? when i mentioned "millions", i meant everyone...from 1968 up until now and not just for honda, lexus, or bmw but all makes and model. and yes, i did 9 JD surveys so far. and sometimes when i see the result, mine were totally different from what they have. why? because of the bell-shaped curve. taking a small sample and average them out to represent the whole is how statistics work. how do you know they don't take variances into account?

 

Because the entire survey is laid out and worded in such a way as to be as absolutely subjective as possible... and worse still, it relies on people having knowledge pertaining to what they're being asked about. And that's a terrible error in judgment.

How's the air conditioning performance in your new XXXX car?
Much better than expected
Better than expected
Exactly as expected
Somewhat worse than expected
Much worse than expected

And what will we learn from the elicited answer? Nothing, other than what unqualified, Random Dude #5827 assumes to know about air conditioning.

If left to their own devices, most car owners would assume the oil is self-changing and that brake pads last for eternity. If you build a statistic off of data accumulated by idiots, it's only suitable for one end group... idiots.