moon roof edge drain?
06-18-2004, 02:16 PM
#1
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moon roof edge drain?
my sisters boyfriends Honda Accord has a moon roof and it has drains along the sides that eliminate left over water entering the car.
obviously the tC moon roof works differently so it would be a good idea to have the top of the glass dry before opening it but what of the edges? does the tC have a reservoir?
obviously the tC moon roof works differently so it would be a good idea to have the top of the glass dry before opening it but what of the edges? does the tC have a reservoir?
06-19-2004, 01:52 AM
#2
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yeah i notice that too.... the moon roof just closes over the rubber edges.. and water drains down the sides.... I'm wondering after number years of wear and tear.. those rubber will go bad.. then we'll have some bad leaks..
06-19-2004, 06:37 PM
#3
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I took a close look yesterday - same question and two more.
1. Condensation question. Because the interior sunroof shade "panel" in the headliner is a thin roll-up shade (like old style window shades), when it's cold outside and the car is warm from the heater, will condensation drip down from the glass onto the shade and then into the cabin? This interior roll-up shade doesn't seal at the edges of the headliner sunroof cutout. I could see light along the edges and gently push the interior shade roll up on both sides. It's likely heat will get through and heat the glass on the roof more than on a regular thicker interior sliding panel, and the temp diff on the glass will cause fogging and then condensation.
2. Ice question. There's no exterior gasket surrounding the sunroof on the roof (design intentional) - only gasket and drain channels that the sunroof sits on when it's closed to keep water from coming in. There's also an obvious gap between sunroof and roof sections of glass with only drain channels below where a normal sunroof would have an exterior gasket (in that case, water rolls off the roof and not into drain channels). For me, this is important knowing how ice does damage in winter. In the winter, you drive with the heater on, the glass roof heats up and melts some of the snow. Then you park the tC for the night and any melted snow or new snow falling on a warm roof will prolly freeze in the roof gaps as the roof gets colder. Water expands when it freezes. Freezing and expanding water/slush will push against the glass as the ice expands out of the roof gaps. Something has to give. That is not a good thought.
I *really* want to buy the tC, but I need good answers to why these things aren't likely to happen. Moving to sun year round is not in the cards (good thought, though). Moving to northern states with alot of winter is in the cards.
Sorry this got long - wanted to be clear. Any climatologists/engineers out there?
1. Condensation question. Because the interior sunroof shade "panel" in the headliner is a thin roll-up shade (like old style window shades), when it's cold outside and the car is warm from the heater, will condensation drip down from the glass onto the shade and then into the cabin? This interior roll-up shade doesn't seal at the edges of the headliner sunroof cutout. I could see light along the edges and gently push the interior shade roll up on both sides. It's likely heat will get through and heat the glass on the roof more than on a regular thicker interior sliding panel, and the temp diff on the glass will cause fogging and then condensation.
2. Ice question. There's no exterior gasket surrounding the sunroof on the roof (design intentional) - only gasket and drain channels that the sunroof sits on when it's closed to keep water from coming in. There's also an obvious gap between sunroof and roof sections of glass with only drain channels below where a normal sunroof would have an exterior gasket (in that case, water rolls off the roof and not into drain channels). For me, this is important knowing how ice does damage in winter. In the winter, you drive with the heater on, the glass roof heats up and melts some of the snow. Then you park the tC for the night and any melted snow or new snow falling on a warm roof will prolly freeze in the roof gaps as the roof gets colder. Water expands when it freezes. Freezing and expanding water/slush will push against the glass as the ice expands out of the roof gaps. Something has to give. That is not a good thought.
I *really* want to buy the tC, but I need good answers to why these things aren't likely to happen. Moving to sun year round is not in the cards (good thought, though). Moving to northern states with alot of winter is in the cards.
Sorry this got long - wanted to be clear. Any climatologists/engineers out there?
06-19-2004, 08:32 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12
questions answered and test drive description
Got the answers from an engineer friend I forgot about. See my earlier post for the roof questions.
1. (DOH!) Keep the shades open and the heater will take care of condensation if the inside air is not humid. On a curved glass panel, any condensation will roll to the sides. If you forget to open the interior shade, it could be a problem.
2. There could be ice expansion, but the amount would probably not be enough to force glass at the gaps to move.
Since I may have wasted some of your time on those questions, I'll give you some info on my test drive. If you don't like long posts, this would be a good one to skip.
I drove a Flint Mica with auto (4 dlrships and none with manuals to drive - sold them all within 2 days). Looked at the Flint in bright sun. Lots of color flakes in there. My guess is there will be interesting color morphs with different light/sun/clouds, etc. Not dark enough to confuse with black on a sunny day.
5'6" - obviously no probs with headroom. The seat is amazingly adjustable. Very nice stock at the price.
Other posters have mentioned the gauge cluster boot cycle when you power it up. Definitely fun to watch. I'd describe the ride as both smooth and communicative. For me, the road feel is somewhere between a Mazda 3s Sedan and an Accord EX Coupe (4cyl). Not as soft as the Accord and not as "brittle" as the 3. The tC communicated the road, but not with as much of an edge as the 3. I wouldn't say better than the 3, just different.
Quieter on the road than the 3 and pretty close to the Accord (maybe better). The 3 was noisy - tire noise and wind noise. With probs like A/C not cooling enough (and Mazda still not fixing it), rattles, and rear disc pitting/scoring (TSB out now), I won't be getting the 3.
Interior quality was good - better than anything in its price range. Closer to Lexus than to Toyota models in the "feel" of the interior. Beats the 3 interior for me. The HVAC controls are great - pushbutton everything except temp adjustment. The cast aluminum temp **** has a good feel to it. It doesn't look like you can display both time and outside temp at the same time unless it's somehow user-configurable. Outside temp is all you get when you choose it. But that's a world away from deal-breakers.
Steering was tight, almost just as tight as the 3 - more communicative than the Accord. I took a couple of 30 mph hard lefts at lights and the car felt like it was gripping the road with little body lean, if any. Couldn't really do much more with salesguy next to me. Reasonable low-end torque for an auto, but I definitely want to test the manual. I saw a new buyer leave a lot with a manual and it moved well in 1st.
I checked out Camry engine and auto transmission posts when I heard about the Camry - tC relationships. Camry posters have complained about a lag in the auto when you kick it down to pass or merge. Since the pictures of the 2004 Solara auto look the same as the tC auto (same ****, shaft, display plate and shift movements), I checked for lag. There was a slight lag that felt normal for an auto. Not like the posts I read about Camry people almost getting rear-ended because nothing happened when they stomped to merge. Also, the auto has a smooth manual 1-2-3 shift option (no "tiptronic") and then the fully auto "D" slot which gets you all four.
The tC's a great car. I'm getting one - after I drive the manual and see the Blue (down to Flint or Blue). Hope this helps some of you until you can test one yourself.
1. (DOH!) Keep the shades open and the heater will take care of condensation if the inside air is not humid. On a curved glass panel, any condensation will roll to the sides. If you forget to open the interior shade, it could be a problem.
2. There could be ice expansion, but the amount would probably not be enough to force glass at the gaps to move.
Since I may have wasted some of your time on those questions, I'll give you some info on my test drive. If you don't like long posts, this would be a good one to skip.
I drove a Flint Mica with auto (4 dlrships and none with manuals to drive - sold them all within 2 days). Looked at the Flint in bright sun. Lots of color flakes in there. My guess is there will be interesting color morphs with different light/sun/clouds, etc. Not dark enough to confuse with black on a sunny day.
5'6" - obviously no probs with headroom. The seat is amazingly adjustable. Very nice stock at the price.
Other posters have mentioned the gauge cluster boot cycle when you power it up. Definitely fun to watch. I'd describe the ride as both smooth and communicative. For me, the road feel is somewhere between a Mazda 3s Sedan and an Accord EX Coupe (4cyl). Not as soft as the Accord and not as "brittle" as the 3. The tC communicated the road, but not with as much of an edge as the 3. I wouldn't say better than the 3, just different.
Quieter on the road than the 3 and pretty close to the Accord (maybe better). The 3 was noisy - tire noise and wind noise. With probs like A/C not cooling enough (and Mazda still not fixing it), rattles, and rear disc pitting/scoring (TSB out now), I won't be getting the 3.
Interior quality was good - better than anything in its price range. Closer to Lexus than to Toyota models in the "feel" of the interior. Beats the 3 interior for me. The HVAC controls are great - pushbutton everything except temp adjustment. The cast aluminum temp **** has a good feel to it. It doesn't look like you can display both time and outside temp at the same time unless it's somehow user-configurable. Outside temp is all you get when you choose it. But that's a world away from deal-breakers.
Steering was tight, almost just as tight as the 3 - more communicative than the Accord. I took a couple of 30 mph hard lefts at lights and the car felt like it was gripping the road with little body lean, if any. Couldn't really do much more with salesguy next to me. Reasonable low-end torque for an auto, but I definitely want to test the manual. I saw a new buyer leave a lot with a manual and it moved well in 1st.
I checked out Camry engine and auto transmission posts when I heard about the Camry - tC relationships. Camry posters have complained about a lag in the auto when you kick it down to pass or merge. Since the pictures of the 2004 Solara auto look the same as the tC auto (same ****, shaft, display plate and shift movements), I checked for lag. There was a slight lag that felt normal for an auto. Not like the posts I read about Camry people almost getting rear-ended because nothing happened when they stomped to merge. Also, the auto has a smooth manual 1-2-3 shift option (no "tiptronic") and then the fully auto "D" slot which gets you all four.
The tC's a great car. I'm getting one - after I drive the manual and see the Blue (down to Flint or Blue). Hope this helps some of you until you can test one yourself.
06-19-2004, 08:46 PM
#5
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Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 72
thanks for the answers.. it helps a bit.. but i guess its the down the road thing.. I guess it wouldn't be a problem for those of you who just keeps the car for like 2 or 3 years.
as for the test drive and having the salesguy next to you.. hehe.. I downshifted on the freeway and was just enjoying the acceleration and damn!! it hit the red line so damn fast.. 6.5..... arrrgghhhh, I kinda looked right and the salesguy was holding on to the handle.. hehe. finally at a stop light... i was gonna try to see how the pickup is.. and i guess i released the clutch too early
so i burnt some tires around ppl looking at the car.... 
as for the test drive and having the salesguy next to you.. hehe.. I downshifted on the freeway and was just enjoying the acceleration and damn!! it hit the red line so damn fast.. 6.5..... arrrgghhhh, I kinda looked right and the salesguy was holding on to the handle.. hehe. finally at a stop light... i was gonna try to see how the pickup is.. and i guess i released the clutch too early
so i burnt some tires around ppl looking at the car....
06-19-2004, 08:46 PM
#6
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 996
Nice review as I am looking to get a Flint Mica/Auto.
Couple of questions:
1. How was the visibility when looking right, left, and through rear view mirror?
2. Did the A/C cool the car fast?
3. Opinion of the stereo sound quality?
Thanks.
Kevin
Couple of questions:
1. How was the visibility when looking right, left, and through rear view mirror?
2. Did the A/C cool the car fast?
3. Opinion of the stereo sound quality?
Thanks.
Kevin
06-20-2004, 12:40 AM
#7
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12
sush1a - Sounds like you had alot more fun than I did! Speed just "happened" for me, too. 72 and I thought it was maybe around 55 at that point. Smooth ride.
Kevin, glad the review was useful. Here's everything I can remember to answer your questions.
1. Visibility seemed good. Side mirrors have good image size (mirror surface) - feels just right. The rear window seemed ok - not huge visibility - but not bad. However, filter that through my current car being a CRX. At no point did I feel like I was missing something, other than the usual blind spot.
2. The A/C was good. I was looking for that because of my friend's Mazda 3 and the A/C issues on the various forums. The tC was sitting in the sun with windows and sunroof open and direct sun on the seats at 89F (per the dash display). No wind, so not a lot of natural air movement inside the car. To check road noise and A/C, we closed everything once we were in a 55 mph zone. I had to turn the A/C fan down after just a couple of minutes and move the temp up a little because it was too cold. Salesguy was fidgeting with the vents so he wouldn't freeze - it was kinda funny. We never used the recirc - all 89-degree fresh air. The fan speed control is microchip - up or down buttons to cycle through speed. Off button to stop.
A little more on the heat thing - I tested an 05 Corolla LE after the tC - one last forced effort at trying the fuel economy option (it's just not meant to be this time around). Didn't like the Civic - about 5 years too plain (I know, the Corolla's no beauty, either.) The Corolla A/C worked great, too - but the upholstery wasn't as good (for me) as the tC. Got a sweaty back in the LE, but after the tC drive, no problems. Same route, same approach with windows and sunroof open until 55 zone, etc. The A/C was good in both - it was the upholstery that got me in the LE. We did air the LE out with open doors while we were walking around it before I drove, but it says something to me that the tC also started hot, was A/C cooled on the drive the same way, and my back was fine.
3. The stereo head unit was missing. I read something about the new 05 head unit being on order. Apparently, it has a circuit improvement to give you the option of dealing with compression artifacts on MP3's. (I'm happy with my MP3's - I recommend the free Exact Audio Copy with the LAME codec. I use 192 VBR).
That great tC silver dash door is hiding a stereo void for now. I did listen to the same head unit on an xA and wasn't impressed with the Scion sound shaping (or whatever they call their 3 equalization presets). I'll reserve judgment until I hear the tC, though. Certainly different acoustic space, different sound-absorbing materials, etc. I did decide that because I burn my own discs and MP3 discs can hold much more data than wave-based discs that I'll skip the extra $$$ to upgrade to a 6-disc breakable mechanism along with 10 changeable colors. If I don't like the stock unit and someone other than Scion accessories puts out a reasonably-priced better one later, I'll pick it up.
Enjoy your tC! The Flint is a great color.
Kevin, glad the review was useful. Here's everything I can remember to answer your questions.
1. Visibility seemed good. Side mirrors have good image size (mirror surface) - feels just right. The rear window seemed ok - not huge visibility - but not bad. However, filter that through my current car being a CRX. At no point did I feel like I was missing something, other than the usual blind spot.
2. The A/C was good. I was looking for that because of my friend's Mazda 3 and the A/C issues on the various forums. The tC was sitting in the sun with windows and sunroof open and direct sun on the seats at 89F (per the dash display). No wind, so not a lot of natural air movement inside the car. To check road noise and A/C, we closed everything once we were in a 55 mph zone. I had to turn the A/C fan down after just a couple of minutes and move the temp up a little because it was too cold. Salesguy was fidgeting with the vents so he wouldn't freeze - it was kinda funny. We never used the recirc - all 89-degree fresh air. The fan speed control is microchip - up or down buttons to cycle through speed. Off button to stop.
A little more on the heat thing - I tested an 05 Corolla LE after the tC - one last forced effort at trying the fuel economy option (it's just not meant to be this time around). Didn't like the Civic - about 5 years too plain (I know, the Corolla's no beauty, either.) The Corolla A/C worked great, too - but the upholstery wasn't as good (for me) as the tC. Got a sweaty back in the LE, but after the tC drive, no problems. Same route, same approach with windows and sunroof open until 55 zone, etc. The A/C was good in both - it was the upholstery that got me in the LE. We did air the LE out with open doors while we were walking around it before I drove, but it says something to me that the tC also started hot, was A/C cooled on the drive the same way, and my back was fine.
3. The stereo head unit was missing. I read something about the new 05 head unit being on order. Apparently, it has a circuit improvement to give you the option of dealing with compression artifacts on MP3's. (I'm happy with my MP3's - I recommend the free Exact Audio Copy with the LAME codec. I use 192 VBR).
That great tC silver dash door is hiding a stereo void for now. I did listen to the same head unit on an xA and wasn't impressed with the Scion sound shaping (or whatever they call their 3 equalization presets). I'll reserve judgment until I hear the tC, though. Certainly different acoustic space, different sound-absorbing materials, etc. I did decide that because I burn my own discs and MP3 discs can hold much more data than wave-based discs that I'll skip the extra $$$ to upgrade to a 6-disc breakable mechanism along with 10 changeable colors. If I don't like the stock unit and someone other than Scion accessories puts out a reasonably-priced better one later, I'll pick it up.
Enjoy your tC! The Flint is a great color.
06-20-2004, 01:15 AM
#8
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i was gonna make a new thread for this but since you've driven the tC, youll have the answer...
reverse: is it like some cars where you press in and then shift into reverse or can u just move in to R freely?
i hope i worded that right?
reverse: is it like some cars where you press in and then shift into reverse or can u just move in to R freely?
i hope i worded that right?
06-20-2004, 01:35 AM
#9
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12
Good question - now I'm curious. The test drive was all forward movement for me - didn't actually use reverse. (Maybe that's where they saved on costs!) Went straight out onto the street and then returned into a second driveway and forward to park where it was displayed.
I can tell you that moving the auto down from P through R to D didn't feel like anything other than just another move in the slot pattern. Don't know about the manual. Thanks for the reminder - I'm gonna check reverse next time.
I can tell you that moving the auto down from P through R to D didn't feel like anything other than just another move in the slot pattern. Don't know about the manual. Thanks for the reminder - I'm gonna check reverse next time.
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