Yes the $832.87 is just for the deflector, they said the part itself is $589.39

Toyota Part Number - 63201-21090 Glass Sub-Assy, Slid

Labor was $158.88

Tax was $54.49

and some BS charge of $20.00 for Shop Supplies for Repair Order

Invoice # 398481 Coggin Toyota/Scion

Jacksonville, Florida

 

Yes I guess in some ways it is very sad. But the fact of the matter is there are stupid people out there. And manufacters do have the responsibility of making their products somewhat idiot proof. Or they will be slapped silly with lawsuits. Just like the lady who spilled Mc Donalds Coffee over herself and sued because the coffee was too hot. Now all Mc Donalds cups have warning labels. I still dont get that......

But I think you misunderstood my response. The last person who posted claimed that the glass is suppose to be fragile. I responded by saying, Toyota would not intentionally make their glass so delicate, IF they did, they would of put warning labels on them. If the glass is in fact a problem, I am sure Toyota was fully unaware, and if they are aware now then they are just as interested in fixing it as we are.

 

The deflector is held by 6 screws. Took me about 4 minutes to uninstall and reinstall in the dark on my office parking lot. The sunroof itself is held by 6 screws and 2 more that hold 2 decorative side pieces. Again, takes about 5 minutes to replace. Go and get the money back that the dealer charged you for labor...

 

basalisk.... or however you spell it... I am sorry, but you are entirely off base with those statements. You obvioulsy are missing some very basic info on the engineering process, which is to provide contingency. Every other car with a moonroof operates just fine at highway speeds. I will check my manual again as well to see if I missed it.

Someone expecting a moonroof to be ok at highway speed while open is hardly stupidity. I have NEVER seen or had one fail for any reason other than something hitting it.

But what I was saying, is that a basic concept of engineering is to design for all aspects of operation, if it cannot handle being open at 70 mph , then it should be designed to lay down... but WHOA! it is!!!!! So even though they added that feature to lay down the deflector at certain wind speeds, it still breaks... so there is definitely something wrong. It amazes me that anyone could not understand that.

 

Yes, in a perfect world -- i.e., one in which money were no object -- every product would be engineered to withstand every possible contingency. Obviously, though, that is not how things are designed in the real world, nor should it be. Consider car tires, for example -- H-rated tires are perfectly adequate for most drivers, but if you drive 100+ on H-rated tires for very long, they will get too hot and you WILL have a blowout. That doesn't mean, though, that there is anything wrong with these tires; it just means that it is a bad idea to use them for something other than their intended purpose.

In the real world, products are engineered to withstand just a little bit more than is believed to be necessary. This is because manufacturing and selling a product is not just about engineering, but rather is also about marketing and providing a product that the customer wants, at a price that the customer is willing to pay. In theory, the reason that BMWs are worth what they cost -- I am not saying that they are or are not, just presenting the argument -- is that they perform well and hold up well under all circumstances. You expect that when you pay that kind of money for a car. When you pay $16,000 for a car, however, it is only reasonable to expect that it is going to have some limitations. This is where the manual and reading come in.

My point is that products have their intended purpose, and if driving at highway speeds is not the designed-for purpose of the tC's sunroof, and if this is stated in the manual, then I have little sympathy for people who damage their cars by failing to follow the manufacturer's recommendation. Granted, I didn't know this limitation of the sunroof until I read that part of the manual about a month after I got the car, and I was surprised when I read it...but that doesn't make it any less valid.

That having been said, as far as providing for reasonable contingencies, I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't line the insidef of the wind deflector portion of the glass with the gummy film that windshields have.

I tend to agree with you. If this is truly a defect, then of course we will want to know about it. All I was saying is that glass breakage resulting from using the sunroof for something other than its intended purpose is not a defect. Like I said, though, I do agree with you that Toyota did not intentionally design the glass to be fragile. If nothing else, like I said earlier, though, I am a little surprised that they didn't make it with the same gummy material that all windshields have.

 

Gummy Material?

 

Windshields are made up of laminated glass: two pieces of glass with a layer of film (vinyl, plasticy stuff, gummy material) between them. Amongst other purposes, the middle film layer keeps the glass from flying off into shards if it's broken. Instead the broken glass sticks to the film.

 

OOO GOTCHA!..thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Hope this never happens to me I drive with my sunroof open all the time and I go pretty fast

 

I was racing against a '05 Kia Rio with my sunroof all the way open. At around 90 mph, I threw my hand up in the air to celebrate winning, and my beer bottle smashed right into the front piece of glass....

And it didn't break.

 

This is hardly "engineering for everything" this is way waaaayyy below normal engineering standards. A defect that UNDER NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS can cause the driver to be showered with jagged peices of glass is hardly something toyota should ignore. My engineering experience aside, this is just plain, common sense. Not to mention that the glass reportedly did not behave like safety glass when it broke. But oh well... if your wheel falls off running 80 mph... I am sure we could all say "well he was stupid for going over the speed limit, so toyota should not be liable."

 

guess i have to close it from now on

 

Sorry, but that's total bullsh*t.....no way a Kia Rio was doing 90

 

And someone must be reading a different manual than mine... because it NEVER says not to drive at a certain speed with it open. It states that due to windthrobs, they reccomend to drive with it at the patially open position. Doesnt mention any speed or anything else... would you care to tell me which page you read that on???

 

This has been stated about 5 or 6 times so far in this thread and apparently other people still don't get it.

RTFM people. It doesn't say to not drive at high speeds with it open. It recommends the 3/4 position at high speeds. Just as engifineer says.

RTFM. RTFM. RTFM.
Then read it again.

 

Well, not being a tC owner I can't read the blurb in the owner's manual, but unless it specifically states not to have the roof open at speeds above "X" MPH, then one should be able to have an expectation that it is designed to be used in all normal operating modes...

If the only mention of the roof in association with vehicle speed is to close it if the wind buffeting is annoying to the passengers, that is NOT any sort of warning that it might catastrophicly fail if open at normal highway speeds.

Lets face it, if I open my driver's side window in my xB 'at speed' the thumping, booming, wind noise is quite annoying, too. That does NOT mean I expect the windows to shatter...

I view any mention in the manual to close the roof to avoid annoying wind noise at highway speeds simply as an admission by Scion/Toyota that the wind noise is to be expected at high speeds and it's not something you should expect the dealer to "fix."

If I'm flying along at, say, 80 MPH (well within 10% of the posted 75 MPH speed limit that I recently drove in), I should expect my vehicle to be able to handle it without the roof shattering, fenders flying off, engine bursting into a ball of flame, or whatever.

That is just a part of the normal operating environment that the vehicle should be designed to meet. If the vehicle cannot meet operating in that environment, there should be a distinct warning not to operate it in that mode.

From what I've seen in umpteen posts in this thread, there IS no such warning on the vehicle or in it's operating manual...

Heck, the "fix" could be as simple as a yellow and black warning sticker on the roof warning: "To prevent damage, do not operate this vehicle at speeds over 30 MPH with the roof open. Do not leave the roof open if rain is expected and it is parked in an exposed position."

That 'warning to the consumer' would probably be enough...

 

News flash: when things hit glass with enough force, it shatters. The faster you are going, the more likely you are to hit something with enough force to shatter a piece of glass that is part of your car. As an ENGINEER, I would think you would be acquainted with this principle. Now THAT is common sense.

This thread reminds me of the thread on one of the other tC sites where people were whining about their windshields cracking and complaining about the "weak" glass on the tC.

GLASS BREAKS! THIS IS NOT A DEFECT!

P.S. Our tires are pretty weak -- I found a screw in one of mine a couple months ago. If only I had been enlightened enough then to realize that this was something that I should have tried to get Toyota to fix for free!

P.P.S. If there is no speed limitation in the manual, then I apologize for saying that there was. I was sure that I had read that, but it wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong about something. That having been said, see above on the natural properties of glass.

 

Bottom line, the deflector should not be shattering. Arguments such as "its not a BMW, are ridiculous. You dont need to spend a lot of money on a BMW in order to expect to drive at highway speeds and not be showered with glass.

What I do NOT expect from my 20K tC investment are power seats, leather, climate control, the BMW name and other luxaries of a BMW.

I think you should expect just a little bit more from your money. Especially a stronger deflector.

 

Replace deflector with composite material....

 

You seem well beyond the point of understanding much, and have yet to answer where you read this magical manual you quote from. The glass is designed to be opened, is made for a vehicle designed to run over 50 mph, and carries absolutely NO warning. Sunroofs on millions of other cars operate perfectly at these speeds. And, as an engineer, I know that anyone designing a system designs it to meet its normal operating requirements. It doesnt take much sense to understand that, yet you fail to see it, after I as well as others on here have tried and tried to explain. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING HITTING THE GLASS!!! The complaint mentioned (and the cause for investigation) claims that nothing hit the glass, it shatered under nothing more than the force of the wind. THAT is a defect in every sense of the word. Your analogies make no sense either. A better one with the tire would be if it exploded when you inflated it to the specified pressure. So I will leave you to your all knowing attitude and utterly un-related analogies.