2200fire

first of all:

the ion is not competition to the corolla. how can a coupe and a sedan be in competition? 2 differnt kind of people would buy these cars.

second of all the ion redline is DEFINITELY not competition for the corolla. car and driver did a whole review comparing the redline to a srt-4. while that is still not a great comparison due to coupe/sedan theres no way you would ever compare a srt to a corolla hence neither the redline.

third-
wheel base being more in the tC! hmm i dont see a 2.5 inch wheel base difference even being a factor. so i dont know where your getting that from.

---------------
ion-redline= 103.5
tC= 106
---------------

ill show you a blue book example of a tiburons resale value.

the brand new price if you bought a 2003 tiburon gtv6 would have been
$18,199 minus 2000 dollars cash back =
$16,199 is the price you pay for the car.

now your trying to seel it 1 year later with 25,000 miles on it.
KBB says it is worth
$13,210

so within one year your car has depreciated $2,989 dollars
-------------------------------------------
now lets compare that to a 03 celica gts
brand new price is
$22,235 and there are no rebates on the celica according to yahoo autos.
so you actually pay $22,235
and now one year later you want to sell your toyota celica with 25,000 miles ons it. KBB says it is worth:
$17,165

so within 1 year and 25000 miles your "GREAT" resale value celica has depreciated:
$5,070
---------------------------------------------
so your "theory of what you save you loose on resale is completely untrue. maybe with some models but definitely not the tiburon.

incentives work out great. because kelly blue book takes the msrp price and depreciates it from there. so when your getting a car below msrp because of incentives after 1 year youve actualyl saved 2000 dollars compared to toyota. now lets take 2 cars that we can go farther back than 1 year to see if that changes anything.

i will go less into detail this time because im sure you understand what imdoign now.
-------------------------------------------------
say you buy a focus in 02 for
$13,009 minus 1500 incentives
$11,509

sellign it 2 years later with 55,000 miles = KBB
$7,100

depreciation of: $4,409
---------------------------------------------------
say someone else bought a 02 corolla for
$13,570 minus 1,000 cashback
$12,570

now your sellign it 2 years later and 55,000 miles. KBB says=
$8,000 dollars

depreciation= $4,570


STILL WANT TO SAY RESALE VALUES SUCK ON AMERICAN CARS? when resale is compared to msrp it IS true resale is horrible. but when you take REBATES and final cost it was to get the car in your hands they are VERY much alike.

i used yahoo autos for msrp prices on the cars, then look up rebate offers then used kbb to find the private party resale value of each car with: exact same miles, same transmission, base features and excellent condition.

EDIT: it would take more than 5 years for the resale value of a import to slightly overcome the rebate value of an american car.

and were not talking about reliability, which now-adays is only slightly higher in most cases with imports.

chucksu

I know this is not competition for the tC. The reason I say this is because the work it might take to get this done might go over the balance.

Base Mustang V6 Coupe. MSRP=$18775
Then add on a Procharger S/C kit for a 2001 Mustang (This is where the cost would go over is trying to make that kit work) MSRP=$3,530

Total Cost $22,305

Edit: coupé (also coupe) >noun a car with a fixed roof, two doors, and a sloping rear. With that definition & you saying Coupes under 23k the GTi is not in this class. The GTi is a Hatch Back. hatchback >noun a car with a door across the full width at the back end that opens upwards to provide easy access for loading. The tC might fit into the class of a Hatch Back because its a lift back so I dont know.

chucksu

Also have another to add.


Base Hyundai Tiburon with 4 Banger. MSRP=$16,999
Alpine Developments Turbo Kit. MSRP=$2,950
Total Cost=$19,949

A link to the turbo kit. http://shop.hyundaiperformance.com/shop/cat.php?c=15

2200fire

YEAH TECHNICALLY YOUR %100 RIGHT

guess i didnt think of that, was trying to get cars that had similar interior room and stayed with 2 doors. hatch lift or coupe fit into the same cat for interior. but yes technically your right.

2200fire

OMFG i forgot that tiburon!!!!!!!


its msrp is 16,999 like you said BUT theres 2,000 dollars cash back omg i forgot.

so its actually 14,999+2,950= $17,949!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!turbo tiburon.


the delta 4 banger engine is that is one of the strongest 4cyl out there. you can push MAJOR boost through that thing. that is the rally engine they used to use before theh 2.7L v6. it absolutely rocks!

ScionSips

Just to aswer the questions from above, yes you would have to change all of those things for stage three. I know stage one will be out in November. I am not sure about the other stages to this point, no word from Scion. I would expect TRD to come out with a limited slip but I can not tell you I have not heard anything of it yet. But also you can your bank your money on the fact that Toyota has researched the heck out of this, and that it will handle anything they put on it. They will make sure to minimize warranty claims as much as they can or they will not produce it. As for wheel HP I am not sure. Have to wait to see when someone dyno's it. Then last but not least, yes that $3000-$3500 installed will be out the door price.

i64X

Ask that question to someone who bought an 02 Trailblazer, LOADED, for almost $40,000 - they can be had on Autotrader in my area all day long for $13,000-$14,000 now.

Ask someone who bought a Cavalier vs a Civic. I can pick up an 03 LS Sport Coupe for $8,000... those were what... 17 new? And that was the best trim level of the car. Now what does an 03 Civic EX go for? Thought so.

Ask someone who drives any year Accord. They won't complain.

Ask someone who bought an 02 Ford Excusion Limited for $55,000... worth $23,000 now. I know someone who bought one of those and still owes about $30K on it. SOL now. Good thing he went with a domestic truck.

Ask someone who drives a 92 Civic CX hatchback that cost $7,000 new and is still worth $3,000 if it doesn't have rust. They won't complain.

Yeah... I'd say any American cars are a lot worse than imports from Toyota and Honda in a number of departments.

ScionSips

Oh, and by the way to get a Hyundai Tiburon equiped the way that a tC is you would have to bye the GT V6 and that is over $20,000.

Tiburon V6/ tC
172hp/ 160hp
181tq/ 163tq
3015lbs/ 2900lbs
19/26mpg/ 23/29mpg
ABS Optional / ABS Standard
Sunroof Optional/ Sunroof Standard
$20,087 W/ $16465 All Standard
Sunroof/5spd

This is just some comparison information. I didn't mention all the advantages that the tC has, and I left out the biggest one. IT'S A SCION!
Sorry guys, I don't know how to make colums

chucksu

Good Points. I hate some of these things though. Look at what it comes stock with.

Power Windows = You that lazy to roll the window down your self?
Power Door Locks = You to lazy to reach around & lock them?
Sun Roof = You really need to get a tan while in your car?
Power Mirrors = To lazy to adjust your self?

As for the options I did not list I can some what see the point. I my self love A/C but when its over 100 out side rolling down all the windows aint going to do any good. I could also add power steering but not to many cars come with out it any more. So out of the Tib or a tC what would I take? I would need to test drive & see what one I like. The Tib comes with all the standard features I need.

ScionSips

Maybe I am partial because I now sell Scion, but I have sold Hyundai in the past and I have driven both several times. I would pick the tC hands down. The fit and finish is better, the products are of better quality, it is quieter on the inside(even with an all glass roof), it has an extremly smooth ride, and undernieth it's a Toyota. The resale will probalbly kill the Tiburons, just because of the fact that it is a Toyota. Plus I think the tC is better looking. Also, just wait, give the tC a year or two on the market, and the aftermarket scene is going to blow up on this car. Oh, not to mention cheaper insurace, better on gas, and more saftey features.

20vTurbo

What about the srt4... oh wait, if this is a performance competition, there really isn't a need for this poll.

Anyway we have 3 cars that are first year models, so only time will tell on how these cars stack up. The tC has the best predicited reliability of the bunch.

chucksu

The SRT-4 is a sedan not a coupe or hatchback

2200fire

wow, you must really not have read my post. along with everyone that has posted after i made the post about resale.

yes msrp on a tib is 18k i stated that BUT there are incentives which lowers it to 16k. incentives are how other dealers fight back resale. READ MY POST.

oh and to who said somethign about a cav. if there is anyoen in the world that actually paid 17 for a cav they have serious mental problems because even if they did get the fully loaded cav, there are always at least a 2000 cash back OR MORE so it would ACTYALLY BE 15,000

please everyone go back and read my entire post and try to understand that other car companies may have a higher msrp but to match competition resale they all year round offer cash back which lowers the price GREATLY, which in turn keeps ur resale the same or higher the toyota in under 5 years. this is because KBB will factor resale according to msrp, but u actualyl got the car already 2k or more under msrp.

please read again :D