My tC is lowered on Raceland Coilovers, not an extreme drop, maybe halfway down the available height. I think the max I can go is 3inches total drop, I'm only sitting at about half that.

So I took my car in for an alignment after I noticed extreme tire wear on the outside edges of my front two tires (I procrastinated, I know better!) and a slight shimmy in the steering wheel when driving at high speeds.

Keep in mind that the coilovers are THE ONLY PARTS I changed out. No camber links, no wheel spacers, no sway bars, NO NOTHING.

My car is setup with the drivers side slightly higher (1/4 inch) than the passenger because of the weight of thae transmission and driver making the car look uneven. Also, BOTH rear coils are 1/4 in higher than both fronts to prevent rubbing when I have 4 passengers in the car.

I have 18x8 wheels and normal 225/40/18 tires on it.

Here is what the alignment looks like now, I'm looking to see if this is correct or not.



My issue is that my camber and toe is considerably outside of the norms and am worried that my tire problems are going to repeat again.

When I asked the guy why nothing was changed (or changed very little) at all his response was "well, the min/max are for a stock car. Your's is modified, but the guy made the wheels nice and straight and when he drove it it was nice and smooth".

I don't entirely believe him and feel that he saw what needed to be done and realized he couldn't get it done in the hour they originally promised (I didn't care how long it took honestly, as long as it was done right) and just took some shortcuts.

I'm concerned that he effectively didn't fix anything. Now, I'm new to suspension but shouldn't you be able to adjust the stock camber at least a little bit? And is having your front tires point inward normal? Logic says that would be the cause of my tire wear problems.

I need some expert advice here.

 

Your camber is fine... though I find it odd that the front is on the positive side. Maybe that's a thing with Racelands, I don't know.

The biggest problem with your tire wear is more than likely the Toe setting... actually the Toe setting combined with the camber.

If you think about the front, you have positive camber - so the top of the tire is leaning outward - running on the outside of the tire. This by itself is not really a big deal. When you throw in a bad Toe setting though (in your case, the tires pointing inward), it starts wearing out that part of your tire that much faster.

First thing I'd do is find another shop to do an alignment though... mostly b/c this is absolute BS:
I'd be finding another shop ASAP. It should make no difference how modified a car is with regard to an alignment... OK, maybe some difference... but I've been lowered on Hotchkis springs and H&R Sport and no one ever gave me any crap when getting an alignment and they were always very close to spec afterwards.

 

That is the worse alignment spec I have ever seen done on a tC.
In fact, based on the before and after, nothing was done to the car.

You are running positive camber in front (reason for outer tire wear).
This is the reason why many tire shop such as Merchant, Just Tires can afford to offer their $79 alignment. They don't change anything except maybe play around with the toe.

Per other's advice, you need to take your car to another alignment shop and get it done right.

Regards,
Mike @ PTUNING

 

@Ack154 and Ptuning,

I am glad to hear that someone else besides me thought that was a little strange. This car has never been in an accident either (another possible cause) and its not like my car is dropped super low either where I'd get extreme negative camber or other issues. Honestly, my car looks like its got a TRD drop.

Unfortunately, I still have to replace the tires (on order, arriving tomorrow) that are nearly bald on the sides after only 7k and I have to travel this weekend. At least I'll have fresh tires to avoid a blowout on the expressways, but I'll take it back to the shop and have them fix it on monday when I get back.

Whats more is that until I saw this alignment report, I could never figure out why my car literally felt like a jet ski in water (wheels pointed inward and pos camber give the car a spearhead feel when in water)

Here is the official document from the place that did my alignment. It has more detailed info.

 

go and demand your money back because he didn't adjust anything correctly and actually made the front toe worse. it doesn't matter if you're slammed to the ground or monster truck status, toe is always adjustable and that is what wears out tires more. as ack said you have positve camber and negative toe causing your outside wear. the front toe should be at 0 degrees.

i noticed that you said that you have the fronts adjusted unevenly. that is not good for alignments. try to get it as even as possible. believe it or not something as small as uneven tire pressures have an effect on alignments when performing them. so set the tire pressures too before your next alignment.

your right rear toe is right on the edge of positive toe too. have that corrected to what the left side is. 15 degrees is right in the middle and perfect.

front camber has no stock adjustment but you can make the camber in front get into spec by lowering the coilovers a lil bit more or if you like it where it is have the new place performing the alignment loosen both lower strut bolts of both front struts while the car is on the alignment rack (on ground and not lifted) and the weight of the car will lower the camber about a .5 degree then when it is re tightened it will be within spec. if anymore correction is needed for front camber you will need to change out the top bolt of the two lower strut bolts to an aftermarket eccentric bolt. that will give you like 1.5 - 3 degrees of adjustment. actually i would lower the left side coilover a lil bit before that is done to make sure it is within spec.

the back camber is right on the border so it should be fine but there is stock eccentric bolts to correct it. at a trd drop level it should be more in spec than yours tho. i would have that re checked again.

basically when looking at alignment printouts look to see if everything is exactly in the middle of the min/max specs. that is the best possible alignment. the wear will still be pretty even if it is inside the min/max spec range but ideally you want it smack dab in the middle.

 

I assumed much of what you mentioned here after I saw the sheet for the first time, but was told differently at the shop. However, I didn't have time for them to redo it right then because I had to go to work.

Also as far as your comment about the uneven height of the front ones, I read in several coilover threads that you have to adjust the drivers side one about 1/4in. higher because the tranny weight is mostly on that side of the car. Why would this mess up an alignment job if I told them to zero it all out? Wouldn't (shouldn't) they just keep adjusting till the settings are right, regardless of ride height?

 

unfortunately like i said there is little to no adjustment for front camber. even if they did like i said and loosened then re tightened the lower strut bolts you will be barely in the specs. and even if you get the car in spec with the uneven ride height you could possibly have pull issues to the right because with the right front lower its leaning in that direction.

if you look at the engine with the hood open you will notice that the engine is not directly in the center is it? im sure that the engineers have the engine/trans weight distributed evenly in the car so all the factory struts/springs sit evenly. i have not measured it but im sure that the left front strut/spring from the factory is not higher than the right.

if anything the left front should be lower than the right to compensate for road crown. cars will naturally pull to the right because of the road crown and putting the front left side higher only adds to that effect. by having the left front a lil lower than the front right it counteracts the road crowns effect and the car will drive straight.

when it comes to alignments it seems simple but a lot of little things affect it alot.
uneven ride height, uneven tire pressures, worn strut/springs, bent control arms, bad rack and pinion, bad tires, etc all contribute to alignments being done correctly or not.

if a car has bad struts/springs we won't even attempt to do an alignment until they are replaced so im pretty sure your uneven ride height has something to do with it.

just cuz the spec sheet says all good doesn't mean it is sometimes. and judging by yours they are off by a good amount.

trust me i do it all day at my job. there has been plenty of times where i got everything spot on and one or more of those things up there that i listed makes it seem like the alignment is off.

 

I think his ride height is probably even up front on both sides. I have coilovers also and by just looking at the coilovers you would think that the left side of the car should be higher but they are even. The left side of the car is a little heavier therefore by adjusting the coilovers to be exactly the same would make the front drivers side look lower than the passenger side. So by raising the driver side coilover a bit it evens out the ride height. I'm pretty sure his ride height is the same on both sides, it's just that the drivers side coilover is set to a slightly higher setting to compensate for the weight.

 

Oh snap, this whole discussion actually led me to realize some other problems....

With the toe and positive camber problem, that would mean the tire is basically skipping/hopping across the road, which would explain the regularly spaced treadwear patches.....

this in turn would cause the suspension to bounce more as if driving on a rough surface....thus prematurely wearing other parts of the suspension, including the very coilovers that caused the need for an alignment in the first place. So should I start looking at getting replacement coils? or do these things typically last a while even after this issue?

As TC mentioned above, I didnt notice if the engine was slightly offset to the tranny, but that does make logical sense. I haven't look too closely at it personally though.

And about the drivers side ride height.....the spec's on the coils is 390lbs/in. on the front ones. I weigh 140lbs. that means a 0.38 inch sag when I sit in it...which is more than the 1/4 I have set to compensate for it. ...maybe I should have them align it with me sitting in the car! LOL

How much camber can you adjust? Is it possible to get -0.5 on the stock camber links/arms/etc?

Also, guys thanks for all the info. This'll seriously be as helpful as it is educational once I get this sorted out.

 

I agree with all of what has been told to you here, excellent advice. But find ANOTHER shop to do the alignment. PepBoys doesn't have a good reputation for quality work, and this one proves the point of how shady they are. especially this location.

It's obvious they don't know how to work on your tC, lowered or otherwise. Do your car a favor and take it to someone who does know what their doing otherwise you go back to that shop and force them to do the work, you're asking for problems, and damage. So be smart, find another shop.

Those numbers are ridiculous, I know everyone has already said that, but it is possible to get those within the correct specs.

 

Those alignment shops have failed and would give them negative rep for not doing a thing to your car. One thing to try is being at the shop and being the first(or one of the first few) customers in line when they open. It kind of gives less pressure on who's working on your car instead of trying to rush and get the car out if you were to arrive late in the day. If possible, be there by the bay by your car and watch what they are doing and ask any questions if need be. If you spot anything you don't like then you can have it taken care on the spot and lessen the time of having to do a return trip. The toe on the car should be zeroed out(or def well into spec) with no issues no matter how low your car is. If the ride height is around the drop of TRD springs the there shouldn't be a problem there in getting camber into spec also. The front toe adjustment is of major concern and will have you going through tires faster than anything, and the camber is positive making it worse. Get the camber into the negative, I'd ask for -1* and the front toe zero, I'd try to get the rear camber on the rear left to -1.6* to match the right(I'm nitpicky but it's fine where it's at), get the rear toe to .05 on both sides.

 

The rear is adjustable, and should be able to get -0.5 easily.

The fronts are technically non-adjustable, but you can get a little "play" with the stock suspension and get a hair of negative camber. If you use camber bolts or "crash" bolts in the front, you can get more negative camber. I bought the SPC camber bolts, and I maxed them out at about -2 degrees in the front.

 

[quote=pinoyFMtC;3674136]The rear is adjustable, and should be able to get -0.5 easily.


rear's are adjustable to a point with the stock eccentric bolts and factory control arms. you could probably get to -0.5 degrees with stock height. being lowered bout 1.5" like you are you might not be able to get to -0.5 degrees without aftermarket upper control arms. spc makes some.

i could only get mine to -1.6 degrees at the max positive setting. i could get it to -3 degrees at the max negative setting tho.but im lowered 2.5" so you might be able to get a lil more than me.