Hi everyone, I have the opportunity to get a Wilwood Big Brakes kit for the scion to for about $900.00 + shipping, don’t know about tax, it depends on how many we get. The kid # is 1409010-D and it comes in red or black and it has Drilled and Slotted Rotors, just like the picture you see there.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Pages/04/index.asp
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/ds510.pdf

If anyone is interested I need 3 more to complete the order. What you all think?

Rick C.

 

That's a good price. I'd be interested.

 

Its only for the front? I'd be more interested if it were for all 4 corners. I know that most of the stopping takes place in the front but for asthetic purposes, I'd like all 4 corners.

 

when would money be due?
I'm interested.

 

^^Ditto. Great price! I know they haven't come out with a BBK for the rear, so I too will wait. But if peeps aren't as picky as me, I would tell them to go for it.

 

why not ask erik about the questions

 

That is on my wish list... Great price as well. Since we are FWD the rear breaks are nearly as important to upgrade, even though it would be nice overall to just to compliment the whole kit. It will probably be costing around more in the 2k range.

 

Drivetrain does not make that much of a difference unless it's causing some added weight. The Front is MUCH more important to upgrade than the back. The fronts get hotter a lot faster. As long as you have a good pad, the idea is to keep the front and rear as cool as possible. BBK for the front is the max, while just upgrading the rear pads and disc is enough even for racing applications.

Our cars do not weigh that much. Fluid will help, along with SS lines. Keep in mind that larger diameter brakes will actually SLOW your car down slightly because you are adding unsprung weight. If it's not giving you a braking advantage, why bother making your car slower? You obviously planning on racing if you have a BBK kit so why make the car slower than what it could be, and be out an extra grand.

BTW - This post is not geared towards Dakhan at all. I'm simply saying this to help inform people of why there aren't bbks for the rear. It's just not necessary. None of this is relevant for people who do this specifically for show use.

Best of luck to everyone's decisions. Ask if you have more questions.

 

The StopTech BBKs are actually lighter than stock so they add no unsprung weight (in fact take away some.) What they do do is apply a retarding torsional angular force... I think. I don't think it matters much though since the brakes aren't applying power to the ground.

However, I guess it really does matter.

The law of Conservation of Angular Momentum states that P=VX (or something) where X is the distance of the outer edge of the mass to the center of the mass, V is velocity, and P is momentum. If momentum is the same but X is increased (increase size of BBK rotor) than V has to go down.

This is the same reason that larger wheels, if kept at the same weight as stock, will cause lower acceleration. The total diamter of the wheel and tire is the same but on larger wheels there is more mass at the edges so again, X is increased causing a decrease in V is P is kept the same.



Someone help me out here though - if I'm right and P=VX than MV=VX which means that M=X which can't be right. Other than that though, I'm sure I'm right about angular momentum and distance from center of mass to the edge.

 

Yes, you are absolutely rite about the effect of extra weight on a plus size wheel/tire combo at the same size as stock. It's just a trade off that you have to take when plus sizing. That's why you really don't race cars running around the track with 19s

 

Larger brakes with vehicles that have ABS doesnt help you stop faster. The ABS system wont let you brake any faster than the computer decides you can saftely brake. Just because your brakes would allow you to stop 20 feet sooner doesnt mean the computer agree's, it will just turn the ABS system on sooner and you'll still stop in the same distance.

The only bennefits to larger brakes is the looks(obviously) and the fact that the brakes will not overheat/glaze as easily.

If you want the stopping power of the larger brakes you have to disable the ABS system(illegal to do) or find a way to reprogram the ABS system(if you find a way you can make a bunch of money...)

 

That really is not true at all. The ABS will only activate if your tires start to lock up. The best way to reduce stopping distances is by installing better tires since they are the limiting factor in how much brake force can be applied. Where a big brake kit helps the most is heat capacity under track use. They will be able to function at temperatures up to 2000 degrees F without a discrenable loss in performance where factory systems will be useless around 1000 degrees.

All of our kits maintain the factory ABS and have no problems with their function whatsoever. ABS will actaully stop the car shorter than non ABS as it can apply precise pressure adjustements hundreds of times per second where we cant do much better than pumping once or twice a second with far less precision.

We won the braking competitions in the recent RSX challenge with ABS active and running and dramatically reduced stopping distances. You will see that there is some discrepancy between our first and second place cars whch is completely related to the tires (hoosier slicks vs Yokohama treaded tires).

http://www.stoptech.com/company_info...hallenge.shtml

For more info regarding ABS and how it relates to BBK and real world scenarios you can read this article by James Walker Jr, who is a lead systems engineer at Delphi.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakekits.shtml

We have time and time again won braking tests with ABS active in most circumstances. A good example is a recent article from Road & Track's SPEED magazine where we stopped shorter than an Audi TT with a competitors front only kit, and and RX8 with a competitors 4 wheel kit with ABS disabled using an 05 Mustang with a front only kit....we had the heaviest car in the competition. The RX8 stopped almost 70ft longer than stock with ABS disabled.

http://www.stoptech.com/proven_techn...est_wins.shtml

 

I guess what I was trying to say is, if you jam on your brakes(with only your brakes upgraded) you in theory, will stop in the same distance. Obviously a car with better brakes will tend to lock up the wheels than a car with regular brakes.

When you add better gripping tires they wont lock up as easily(slide) so you will be able to stop in a shorter distance.

I just wanted to let people know that getting a big brake kit for street use isnt necessarily going to stop them faster. Road courses, auto x, ect ect yes, but daily driving, no. Dont get me wrong, I love BBK's. They look so great on vehicles, I was just trying to educate

 

That is true to an extent, but I have run my car with stock brakes with stock pads, stock brakes with Axxis Ultimate pads, and the BBK with Axxis Ultimate pads. In each case there was noticeable improvement. The stock tires will lock up at the same point of applied torque since their tractive capacity is the same, but the big difference is the inital application of the brakes where it is more difficult to lock the tires. You will be able to reduce stopping distances by beeding off more speed at higher speed by being able to reach the ABS trigger point sooner which will give you the maximum allowed decelerration. The increased stiffenss in the sytem and increased bite of the pads all add up to mean shorter stops. The differences may only be a few feet but that can mean gaining a position on the track under braking or not hitting the car in front of you on the street.

Where the ABS vs NON-ABS discussion gets interesting is around 100+MPH or about 147ft/sec. If you lock up the tires too soon and have to pump the pedal, you are going to travel 50 to 100 feet before you get into max braking agian. With ABS you get that constant perfect amount of brake pressure and can significantly reduce distances regardless of the tires.

 

Touche

I love a good discussion, never thought of it that way or in that sense. Thanks.

 

Well despite all the knowledge by “The_Instigator” in this topic and some of my friends that race at the track I decided not to go with the Wilwood. They are just not worth it. I have had friend tell me that they don’t last at the track, they constantly get warp. The best choices are Brembo and Stoptech. But you all know the price $$. And now my other dilemma is whether to get BBK or not. Huuumm, decisions, decisions… I guest if the Stoptech BBK weight less that stock that will be a plus but I’m not really sure if that is a true statement or not. If anyone know for sure please let me know, Thank

Rick C.

 

Stoptech and Brembo are the only two companies to ever go on my cars.

 

I think i would rather go with stoptech since its the brake used on the scion tc celeb race at long beach.

its on the new issue of sport compact car page 30

 

The weight of our BBK is lighter than stock, but there is the issue of inertial mass which has been brought up already by kungpaosamuraii. The rotor is larger in diameter so the weight is further awar from the axle centerline. On a dyno, you would probably see a 2-3 HP loss due to a BBK because of this...similar to adding larger wheels than stock although not as dramatic. On the track however the improved braking ability will actually reduce lap times even though you have less usable HP. I could not tell any difference whatsoever in throttle response or acceleration after installing the BBK but I did notice much better pedal feel, response time and driver feedback.

 

Woah, I've been away for too long. I know that larget rotors are unneccessary in the rear but I find them astheticly pleasing to the eye.