Look what I got myself into this weekend-with bad phone pics
10-24-2005, 03:00 AM
#1
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Look what I got myself into this weekend-with bad phone pics
Installed these bad boys:
Sorry about this pic, its from my phone and then digitally enlarged, but you can see the wheel gaps are much smaller now. Ill have better shots up soon:
This stuff is awesome. The car looks and handles sooo much better, but now its even more obvious that the stock tires are absolute garbage. I installed the TRD sway bar a few weeks ago on the race setting and everything really works well together
I tried to install everything without a spring compressor, but it was a no go for the fronts. The TRD shocks have a shorter shaft that requires a compressor. I was able to get the rears in just fine without a compressor though. If you are doing the sprngs only, you should be fine without a compressor. I did the initial install with stock shocks/TRD springs in the front and TRD shocks/TRD springs in the rear and it felt good, but after I got a compressor and reinstalled the fronts with the shocks and springs it really made a difference. If you dont install the shocks with the springs you are really missing out on the full potential of the car. Another thing I ws suprised about was how nice the ride is. It feels a little firmer than stock but it is still very smooth. There is absolutely no harshness over bumps and none of the bunny hopping in the rear you see on some lowered cars.
Its been a little wet over the weekend here so I dont have any good before/after shots, but in a week or so after they have a little more time to settle Ill put up some good comparison pics.
FYI, I have the OEM body kit and have zero issues with rubbing or bottoming out/scraping so far. It is important when parking to make sure to keep from pulling too far forward and hitting paring blocks or curbs though.[img][/img]
Sorry about this pic, its from my phone and then digitally enlarged, but you can see the wheel gaps are much smaller now. Ill have better shots up soon:
This stuff is awesome. The car looks and handles sooo much better, but now its even more obvious that the stock tires are absolute garbage. I installed the TRD sway bar a few weeks ago on the race setting and everything really works well together
I tried to install everything without a spring compressor, but it was a no go for the fronts. The TRD shocks have a shorter shaft that requires a compressor. I was able to get the rears in just fine without a compressor though. If you are doing the sprngs only, you should be fine without a compressor. I did the initial install with stock shocks/TRD springs in the front and TRD shocks/TRD springs in the rear and it felt good, but after I got a compressor and reinstalled the fronts with the shocks and springs it really made a difference. If you dont install the shocks with the springs you are really missing out on the full potential of the car. Another thing I ws suprised about was how nice the ride is. It feels a little firmer than stock but it is still very smooth. There is absolutely no harshness over bumps and none of the bunny hopping in the rear you see on some lowered cars.
Its been a little wet over the weekend here so I dont have any good before/after shots, but in a week or so after they have a little more time to settle Ill put up some good comparison pics.
FYI, I have the OEM body kit and have zero issues with rubbing or bottoming out/scraping so far. It is important when parking to make sure to keep from pulling too far forward and hitting paring blocks or curbs though.[img][/img]
10-24-2005, 03:19 AM
#3
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I got kinda lucky with the shocks because when I bought the car I paid for the security system but never got it installed. I finally got the dealership to honor the $450 as a credit and applied it to the shocks. I figure Ive already paid off the shocks in my payments so far so they ended up costing me about $61.
...Can we see some more pics? Like Xen said, some before and after pics?
10-24-2005, 05:52 AM
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I know it is posted but I am too dang tired to look it up, just wandering what the drop is with those shocks and springs.
Reason asking? I am going to do some very serious roll center corrections on the car as dropped 2" is far to low as it totally screws up the handling of the car, especially with a the stock rook and any other high place weight.
I will make a new thread on it when I get a bit more time, have learned some very interesting things about the suspention on the front end, have not even gotten to the back of the car yet.
For now, I would not drop the car more than 1.5" and probably better at 1" unless willing to do the level of mods we are which is very significant and not talking bolt on, we have alot of fabrication work ahead of us.
Slammed is not what you want if you want to be fast, only if you want to look fast, you know, pretending;)
Rick
Reason asking? I am going to do some very serious roll center corrections on the car as dropped 2" is far to low as it totally screws up the handling of the car, especially with a the stock rook and any other high place weight.
I will make a new thread on it when I get a bit more time, have learned some very interesting things about the suspention on the front end, have not even gotten to the back of the car yet.
For now, I would not drop the car more than 1.5" and probably better at 1" unless willing to do the level of mods we are which is very significant and not talking bolt on, we have alot of fabrication work ahead of us.
Slammed is not what you want if you want to be fast, only if you want to look fast, you know, pretending;)
Rick
10-24-2005, 07:35 AM
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Raamaudio, Please inform us of what you have learned. I'm very interested. I currently have the Hotchks/Trd setup comming and would like to know how to apply the infomation you have to my car.
10-24-2005, 03:27 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by raamaudio
PS, look great by the way, let us know how you like the ride as well, the Tein SS springs seem a bit to stiff, hopefully those are just right!
Rick
Rick
10-24-2005, 04:54 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by miraclecreator
define "handles good"
Originally Posted by zyzyx6969
got pix b4 and after ?
10-24-2005, 05:19 PM
#14
Originally Posted by The_Instigator
I just added a crappy pic from my camera phone.
I'd love to get a set of shocks to go with my springs... unfortunately they're quite expensive.
10-24-2005, 05:25 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by ack154
Originally Posted by The_Instigator
I just added a crappy pic from my camera phone.
I'd love to get a set of shocks to go with my springs... unfortunately they're quite expensive.
Yeah, I was in a good situation to get those shocks. I would defenitely recccomend them. I had a chance to drive the car with the stock front shocks with TRD springs and the TRD shocks are WAY better. It felt like I installed a front sway bar after they went in
10-24-2005, 06:27 PM
#16
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For your setup I would not install a front sway bar, just keep it stock, that may be your plan, I know how well it will work as only running the rear bar right now(Hotchkis but intalling the front for road track days where we will need it more, will run the softer setting on the street and autocrosses)
Most of what I have "learned" is that too much drop brings the roll center very low in the car. This combined with a fairly high center or gravity due to the glass roof creates a rather substantial roll couple. That in turn puts alot of leverage on the suspension when cornering which leads to alot of body roll unless controlled by stiffer springs and stiff sway bars.
The bars and springs can reduce body roll substantially but also the whole combination leads to a great deal of the weight being transfered to the two outside wheels while cornering.
Problem, two wheels are doing the vast majority of the work instead of having four wheels doing a shared amount. This can lead to a substantial loss of grip during the most spirted driving, just when you need it the most.
What can we do about it???
Do not slam the car, though looks cool, it will handle worse, already tested that specifically on our car, far better when up an inch off the bottom on the front spring setting(tein SS-P coilovers) Rear should be a bit higher than the front, maybe 1/4" to 3/8", this promotes less understeer.
The more you lower the car the lower the roll center becomes. when slammed it is nearly under ground!!!! That is a horrible place to have it, now you have extended the roll couple dramatically, bad news.
If you look at the lower control arms you will see the inboard ends lower than the outboard ends, they should be above them for the best setup, even for moderation, lower is not good, not at all.
Softer springs may be advisable than some manf are shipping on thier coilovers, not sure about the rates on the springs alone as have not looked into that. Two of us here are working on what rates to try next.
Remove all the weight you can to lower the center of gravity, why we were so serious about getting a CF/Kevlar(could be either one or both materials), we removed 46 lbs up high!
Now we get to the serious side of fixing this issue, either need to modify the outboard ends of the control arms to lower the pivot point of the ball joint (possibly induce a weak spot in the suspension that you do not want to have to worry about)
Or, replace the steering knuckles with modified ones or from another car with a lower ball joint location, somebody here is already researching that for us.
Another option, may take a combination of the above and this. Raise the inboard pick up points of the lower control arms, another not so easy to do mod.
We are addressing all areas above and more, dialing in the camber, castor(we added approx 1.5 degrees more postive castor up front), corner balancing, toe settings, etc. etc. Then we have to figure out which settings are best for dry weather, for rain days, etc. We will do whatever it takes to maximize the handling potential of our SM class tC, we have all winter to test and tune for next season.
I am going to make a new post with all this in it
Rick
Most of what I have "learned" is that too much drop brings the roll center very low in the car. This combined with a fairly high center or gravity due to the glass roof creates a rather substantial roll couple. That in turn puts alot of leverage on the suspension when cornering which leads to alot of body roll unless controlled by stiffer springs and stiff sway bars.
The bars and springs can reduce body roll substantially but also the whole combination leads to a great deal of the weight being transfered to the two outside wheels while cornering.
Problem, two wheels are doing the vast majority of the work instead of having four wheels doing a shared amount. This can lead to a substantial loss of grip during the most spirted driving, just when you need it the most.
What can we do about it???
Do not slam the car, though looks cool, it will handle worse, already tested that specifically on our car, far better when up an inch off the bottom on the front spring setting(tein SS-P coilovers) Rear should be a bit higher than the front, maybe 1/4" to 3/8", this promotes less understeer.
The more you lower the car the lower the roll center becomes. when slammed it is nearly under ground!!!! That is a horrible place to have it, now you have extended the roll couple dramatically, bad news.
If you look at the lower control arms you will see the inboard ends lower than the outboard ends, they should be above them for the best setup, even for moderation, lower is not good, not at all.
Softer springs may be advisable than some manf are shipping on thier coilovers, not sure about the rates on the springs alone as have not looked into that. Two of us here are working on what rates to try next.
Remove all the weight you can to lower the center of gravity, why we were so serious about getting a CF/Kevlar(could be either one or both materials), we removed 46 lbs up high!
Now we get to the serious side of fixing this issue, either need to modify the outboard ends of the control arms to lower the pivot point of the ball joint (possibly induce a weak spot in the suspension that you do not want to have to worry about)
Or, replace the steering knuckles with modified ones or from another car with a lower ball joint location, somebody here is already researching that for us.
Another option, may take a combination of the above and this. Raise the inboard pick up points of the lower control arms, another not so easy to do mod.
We are addressing all areas above and more, dialing in the camber, castor(we added approx 1.5 degrees more postive castor up front), corner balancing, toe settings, etc. etc. Then we have to figure out which settings are best for dry weather, for rain days, etc. We will do whatever it takes to maximize the handling potential of our SM class tC, we have all winter to test and tune for next season.
I am going to make a new post with all this in it
Rick
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