Ok, so, I've been AutoXing on my Pzeros on my 18" rims on S-Techs... but there are some big changes coming very soon... I've got a set of new Progress springs as well as Tokico shocks and, while I want to get some everyday show-y rims, I want to focus on the racing/performance aspect before all else... so I read some reviews and I wanted to see what people thought about this:

1. Rims: Stock OEM 17" rims. Cost being a major factor. There are lighter wheels but I don't plan on going National or anything. These will give me more overall rubber and allow me to do better and have more fun at my local events I think... right?

2. Tires: Yokohama ADAN Neova AD07 - Have read nothing but great reviews on these tires... would get them in the 225/45ZR17 (that is the correct OEM size, right?). Any positive or negative comments on these tires? And unless I'm mistaken, these would be STS allowed right? Good tire for STS?

Also, on that tire, can someone tell me what the difference is between these? It says they're the same tire, just a $60 difference?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=6

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=5

 

our stock tire size is 215/45/17

The only thing i can see a difference in the tires is the more expensive one says its for a Lotus lol

 

If you have a spare set of OEMs.. run Falken Azenis 225/45/17's. Those are about the most popular street tire you will find in autox right now for the price. Bridgestone RE01R's are probably topping the charts right now, but are pretty spendy.

If you use them (Azenis) for daily driving, you will be lucky to get 10,000 - 12,000 miles out of them, so keep that in mind. I use a spare set of rims and only put them on to autox.

Good choice in not running 18's for autox. Stick with nothing larger than stock 17"s.

Progress really is a bit too much drop for the tC. Definitely better than the stechs though. Those are a horrible choice for good handling. You are best finding a drop close to 1.4" if you can. At least the progress has a better spring rate to drop relationship to the s-techs, but the rates should be higher IMO for a 1.8" drop. The big issue with the progress srpings is that you are over lowering the car, which throws off the geometry and can even increase roll couple on a macpherson strut setup. I really wish there was a drop similar to the TRD (1.3" .. although some places say less for some reason) but with even higher srping rates, like say 225F/450R ... but to really get it right I will be moving to Tein SS-Ps and tuning them down the road.

For sways, I recommend TRD rear or the hotchkis set. I am on the TRD rear and it does well. .even causing me to countersteer in some of the longer corners. But I am starting to get to the point where I want to go further with my setup, so Hotchkis will be my next step.

Alignment is key as well. I am running max toe (within oem spec though) front and rear, -1.75 degrees of camber up front and -2.0 degrees camber in rear.

 

You are correct as well in that that tire size is fine in STS. The rule is that they have to be no wider than 225 and that they have to be a street tire (no r-comps)

 

I'll be getting a set of OEM cheap to run the new tires so I can run the Azenis, they will be track-only. And I know about the spring height problem... I tried to bridge a gap between show and go... Progress is still a little too low but I think the higher rate plus the new shocks will help a lot to overcome so I can get good things from both worlds... Also I have the Progress rear sway already installed and it made a noticeable difference from stock.

As for an alignment, I was thinking... somewhere between -1 and -2 degrees of camber all around (I know about wear issues but I've been told that that is just enough camber to provide stability without causing too much wear if I'm willing to buy new tires a little earlier, which I am) and also getting just a HAIR, like, barely noted on the machine, toe in the rear to straighten it up. Nothing to severe obviously as it has to work on the street, too.

I'll look into those Azenis. Thanks!

 

Which Azenis were you referring to, the ST115 or the RT-615?

 

RT-615

 

Seeing as I don't have a set of OEM rims lying around... you guys think that's still a good, affordable racing wheel way to go or do you think I can find an even better deal on something else, maybe from a difference vehicle, etc. ...

 

check out edgeracing.com . They sometimes have some pretty cheap wheel and tire combos. At one time they had a set of 17X7's that actually looked pretty decent (although they would have just been my autocross ones anyways) and weighed 17 lbs. So 5 lbs lighter than stock. If you bought them with a set of azenis as a package it was $900.. so not too bad at all, and they come mounted and balanced. Even at the one man shop I use, I pay about $60 to mount and balance 4 tires.

But, I had already bought a set of oems for about $150 for the set, so I stuck with those.

And as mentioned above the RT-615's are the ones I mention. I have been running them at about 39 lbs up front and 36 in the rear. They are rolling right to the edges of the tread that way, which is perfect.

 

Double Post

 

They have some 17s for $89 a piece. Better news, the RT-615s came down in price so the whole package costs like $700 or so... not bad, not bad at all... oh, but they only have the tire in the bundle in 215/45/17... where's the option to bump it to 225?

 

Yeah the difference in the those Yokos are that one of those are model specific, if you look around tire rack they have a few tires like that, I don't know why though. The Ado7's are an excellent tire, this are the Evo OE tires and are some of the best tires for autocross. Like engifineer said the Re01r's are an excellent tire asweel. They are direct competiion to the Ado7's. The Ree01r's are the OE tires for Sti's. Both are pricey but allot of the track honda guys who run in the street class (road course) seem to prefer the bridgestones. They are a little less than the yokoos. Here's a quote I had with a guy who road races his Dc5 and runs the Re01r's on honda-tech.

Original Thread

And here is my take on the 615's, I've ran three events so far with a total of 18 runs. I've had the tires on since December and I just hit the warning thread lines. I can still pull another event but I'll be crossing my fingers for no rain. So far I have 8k miles out of them. Since I've never owned a set of Extreme Performance tires I really didn't know what to expect, but the lack of thread life really hit me. I'll be purchasing two more tires and then will try and find an extra set of wheels for daily driving. If I had a dedicated set of track wheels/tires I'm pretty sure I could of pulled 2 seasons out of the 615's. So my recommendation, which you already seem to be doing, is to find a set of wheels which you will only run at the track.

Now as far as the 615's go they have excellent grip, the are far superior to any other tire which doesn't fall under the "Extreme Summer Performance Class." Don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you that the KDW's or any other tires offer similar grip to the 615's. With that out of the way out of the "ESPC tire class" the 615's are an excellent INTRODUCTORY tire to the ESPC class. The problem with the 615's is that after they get hot, they get very greasy. Once you move up to the Z1 Star Specs, the Re01r's, the Ad07's or a higher class tire they are more consistent and can handle heat better. If you look at the AutoX street tire champs, most of them seem to run the Bridgestones and the Yokohomas.

My .02 is that you run the 615's for the first season, once you learn the car and find out what you really need from a tire then move up and spend more on being competitive. Thats why I'm aiming for after this season. Just my .02 though.


Ok, now suspension setups. I'm currently running the Tein SSp's they are excellent and run them 5 clicks from full stiff all around. ( on a scale of 27 clicks) For my first event I was pretty low, there was no finger gap. I had allot of understeer issues and the car wouldn't rotate too well. Since then I raised it to 3.5" from the top of the wheel (not the tire) to the fender, it still looks excellent and the car drove SO much better. I have the factory sways, motor mounts and rear camber kit. I've been running 1 degree of negative camber all around and will be moving up to 2 degrees because I had allot of outer tire wear after events.


That was allot of writing... lol

 

The downfall of the azenis, as mentioned is that they tend to get slippery if overheated. And yes, at national levels, the bridgestones are in more of the winning spots. At local events however, you will see many more people on azenis due to a much better price. If you run where it gets pretty hot in the summer, get a cheap lawn and garden sprayer (one that you pump up) and keep it full of water. Spray the tires down between runs. That is what most others do during the hot days.

If I were track racing, I would spend the dough on some higher end tires to try to battle the overheating issue, but for local autox, I think the Azenis are an excellent bang for your buck.

2 degrees is a nice setup and wont wear tires on the street (you will have to run pretty harsh camber to wear the tires).

 

Yup my friend in his dc5 is running -3 and his tire wear is fine. Would you know how much caster the Tc can make. I'm planning on having the guy max it out next time i head to the alingment shop.

 

I havent tried changing caster, so I am not sure. I know stock you can get very little camber wise up front other than whatever comes from dropping it. I am running Ingalls bolts up front to get the camber I have. Just using 1 camber bolt per side and one stock bolt.

Let me know what you find out regarding caster.

 

hey so I autox pretty frequently and I recentéy lowered my car on Hotchkis... did I do more damage than good whit the Hotchkis drop? lol I dont think I would bother to change it either way just because it looks so good.

I was also wondering if I should spend the monez I've saved up on tires rather than an exhaust as I was planning. I know that the exhaust will do nothing for performance while tires will help tremendously in autox, but I'm not to concerned with being competative this year as much as I am just focused on getting experience... the issue is that I don't want to wear out my stockies very prematurely... I would likely try to get my hands on a second set of OEM rims and buy some azennies as that apparently is the tire of choice .
What do you guys think?

 

Sounds like a good plan on the tires. Last year I daily drove and autox'd on the same tires. So basically I had to replace my street tires during the winter (At only about 15,000 miles). And they were getting way too slippery to do well in autox by the end of the season. Actually though, it sounds like you can get the wheel and tire package with the azenis mentioned above for $700 that is a great deal.. probably even the same as getting some OEM rims if you consider the cost of mounting and balancing, which should be included in the package above.

The hotchkis drop is a bit too low for what most are finding on this car. The real issue is that they have rates of 175F/285R according to the info I have.. which are very low rates (again, they tried to make a lower spring and not sacrifice ride comfort too much.. which is not a good mix). I am betting that on hard transitions, you will be riding on the bump stops.. which is the same as suddenly having a super high spring rate in the middle of a turn. The rear rate to front rate mix is not so great on them either.

If you look at the TRD's in comparison (Which I think still should be a stiffer), they are 168F/324R.. with less drop. Plus, the rear rate is nearly twice the front rate. This is akin to having a stiffer rear sway on the car, which is how it should be.

I would certainly at least get a sway bar set or at least the trd rear bar to help balance them out more.

You can see all of the spring rates and drops that people have been able to find here:

http://www.yoursciontc.com/forums/in...howtopic=16894

 

yeah I plan on getting the Hotchkis sways and using the rear on its stiffest setting to combat the understeer problem. Also once I blow my stock shocks from riding lowering springs, I suppose I'll get some stiffer shocks to help out that spring rate issue.

How much does mounting and balancing cost? I was actually planning on putting my stock tires on the new rims and the azenis on my current rims because I fed them up trying to paint them lol.

 

Prices vary greatly. For example, I can go to a typical tire shop here and pay about $100 to mount and balance 4. Or, I can go to the alignment guy I use, who does a lot of race alignments on porche track cars and such... and pay about $60 to mount and balance 4. If you know of a good small shop around you, I would check there first.

 

Yup, if I where you i'd try and look for a good small shop you can go to for alingments and everything else you might need, I'm having THE hardest time getting someone do my alignment to my specs. I've waited for 2 hours for a local Triple A to get my car on the lift, only for them to tell me that they will only do my alignment to factory specs, and if they do my specs it will be $120 dollars because of my pillowball mounts. Which is bogus, other shops won't do lowered cars, and vice versa. Its so lame.

I'm not running any sways just yet, just the SSP's, and its a little fun playing with your air pressures and foot work to learn how to make the car rotate. The only real issues I've had with understeer while exiting a corner. But thats a given with any open diff FWD car, you'll develop good throttle control control techniques though.