CrimsonCar

I really want to push my new tc2 beyond 200 horsepower. I have seen this done with only minor modifications and a tune, for the descendant "baseline" test before they threw on their blower.
THe question is what did they do to gain the extra 20 whp? I was thinking about a free flowing exhaust, CAI, and headers. Second Question then becomes will I need to piggyback a new flash tunner or will I just trust the oem computer to adjust the tune in order to lick up the new HP gains. Question then becomes has anyone broke 200 on a NA engine. I would love to save for a blower, and I indeed might, but for now I have a goal of 200.


Please release the limitless bounds of you knowledge, experience, and wisdom so that I may be full and go forth with my credit card and swipe.

thanks in advance

Scratch

iTrader: (3)

200 at the wheels or 200 at the crank? Which Dyno do you plan to use to check numbers? Keep in mind the Descendant folks use a Dynapack as you can see in the video you posted, which will give higher numbers than the Dynojet.

For example, the PTuning stock dyno ran 159 WHP @ 153.7 TQ at 72 degrees in their shop.

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...65&postcount=1

...and Descendant had their stock at 198whp & 197tq (no notes on temp)

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...77&postcount=5

Sooo, reaching a specific HP goal may not be as important as just gaining a set amount of HP/TQ.

MightyP

iTrader: (1)

Scratch is right. Dyno numbers on a car are all over the place. I would suggest however that you set a performance goal rather than a hp goal. Weight reduction doesn't change hp, but does improve all aspects of performance. Also keep in mind, you might spend $3k to get your 40 hp when you can spend $5k to get the turbo.

But to answer your specific question, you can add:

- Intake, exhaust, and header will probably add 15-20 WHP for about $1k
- Add an engine tune and you might get another 10 WHP (another $800-$1000)
- Throttle body should help if one is developed.
- Lightweight crank pulley can won't show dyno increases but will effectively give you 8-10 WHP

MightyP

iTrader: (1)

Ignore the poor grammar. I need to stop posting from my phone.

1stOne

I'd have to say that without actual engine work, bolt ons will almost never allow you to achieve anymore than MAYBE 10whp. Intake is good for maybe 1whp, if that or, as everyone advertises 100hp@150,000RPM which we all know is bogus.

You'll need reworked heads, valvetrain, cams, an aggressive tune, a better clutch, a lighter flywheel, possibly an intake manifold, or at least a good porting job (to match the heads), bored TB, etc to make anywhere near the 20whp range.

If simple bolt ons provided the power figures everyone believes they do, don't you think the factory would have opted for those technologies? I mean horsepower sells right? So if 20hp was achievable with $500 worth of metal (after profit and at low volume, so probably $200 for factory side to make), you don't think they'd do it?

The only way your going to get that power with bolt ons is by force feeding it...aka, boost.

2tCornot2tC

If you are using this car as a DD, buy a spare motor and work on it…the 20% increase in performance you are looking for will require head work, cams and pistons at the least. Good project though…keep us all posted on your progress and results.

sameerpwnz

Good project! Good luck

divisii

This seems mostly correct to me, tho I think that Toyota's goals are a bit more divided- noise, cost, durability to name a few. So bolt-ons like exhaust and CAI are not gonna do much.

I'd be performance-oriented like Mighty P suggests.

Suspension drop, high-flow air filter, intake manifold, headwork/cams
NST underdrive pulleys, lighter flywheel, lighter wheels, Optima battery, carbon fiber hood & omit whatever seems reasonable

Deathscythe40

Like someone else said the dyno is the key if you want my answer
if you dyno on a Dyno Dynamics or a Mustang Dyno aka heart breakers
I don't think you can reach 200whp maybe 175whp to 185whp just a guess.
Dyno Jet which Descendant made 167whp stock and 175whp with a intake
put a exhaust and header 190whp. But for a fact I know you can on a Dyno Pack Descendant made 199whp so on that dyno it will show 200whp plus.

Deathscythe40

It is widely accepted in the automotive community that for every 100 pounds of weight lost from a vehicle the gain in acceleration felt would be like getting an extra 10 horsepower. Now remember, you are technically not “gaining” 10 horsepower. Your vehicle is accelerating at a quicker rate that is the equivalent “as if” you had gained 10 horsepower. This is an interesting note because many people erroneously believe that by dropping weight the vehicle is somehow producing more power. This is only true for dropping driveline weight as we have mentioned in the driveline for gas mileage section, not vehicle gross weight. This is an important concept that may take some thought to grasp. Putting this tip into action may be a bit difficult. The cheapest way out of course is to eliminate as much unnecessary vehicle weight as possible. This includes removing junk from your trunk: old clutter, toolboxes, extra baggage. Some people even remove their spare tire for a good 40 to 80 pounds of reduction. Removing bike racks from SUV’s is popular as well.

Deathscythe40

Look people are going to tell you a lot of different things but at the end I would love to see you achieve this on any dyno. The only dyno's for TC2 out there are stock or turbocharged and only N/A's ones just a intake no one has dyno's for a exhaust or header yet maybe together you might get results.

CrimsonCar

I absolutely think that they would make some of the bolt on mods that I am wanting to do, however they have strict emission standards to uphold and laws they won't bend. i.e. removing the front cat in order to throw on a weapon r 4 into 1 header and adding a free flowing exhaust would really not be copacetic for the development team. But those two relatively simply additions would net real gains... yes?

ZeroEyeQueue

I'd have to agree with 1stOne on this one. In my experience, bolt-on (cai or sri/high flow exhaust/header) gains were no more than 10-15whp, even with a tune. In some cases, you may even lose in places rather than gain.

You'd at least have to get some form of engine management, and internals to get near 200. But, that's just working from experience with a 1G non turbo DSM, and an 02 Celica GT-S.

Do some passes at the track to see what you can trap. Upgrade what you can and take note of the smallest gains so you have an idea of what needs to be done or where you would like it to be in terms of performance.

Descendant's baseline tune dyno's significantly high compared to the numbers you'd see normally. They told me it's because Church's is below sea level and it's a Dynapack.

Either way, good luck and hope to see you break the 200.