There have been no threats made. Thats fine if questions are asked. Just like When 2tC emailed after his first post on this brace. We told him since we already had a brace made like the one we wanted, we would not be tweeking the brace itself, but if he had any other ideas to please let us know. As far as different ideas on bracing, fine! We'd love to hear all your ideas. Like I told Don, his idea is great! But it would require us to change all 3 braces to suit, which is not cost effective, let alone .. 'fair'? To previous buyers. Our issue is saying our clamps don't work, which is entirely false. So, I stress again, if you haven't used our products, then please dont comment on our parts not working. We talk from experience, testing, trial and error. Much of these comments made by 'potential buyers' today, have been talk merely behind a keyboard with NOTHING to back it up.

Put yourself in our shoes. This is our business, our life, our income. What would you do when someone starts making wild guesses out of their body parts which hold no credibility when we have done the physical testing for days!? Any other questions, suggestions, or comments please PM me.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would reply to those guesses with real data which shows a comparison with stock components and your own. Those who simply say it won't work without any reasoning behind the comment can be ignored. The lack of credibility will definitely show in their post, and your educated reply. Honestly, those potential buyers could be real buyers, as the prices I have seen for your products are more than fair.

These past replies from you show an immaturity that draws me away from the brand. And, you may not want my business because I disagree with your attitude. However, that doesn't make or break the product, but it does stop me from ever wanting to purchase it, no matter how great the product may be.

There are companies that make products for the tC2 that test their equipment for MONTHS, not days. But, I get it. You're not here to impress me or adhere to my principles.

SHOW them they are wrong. PROVE that it works.

 

so just to let you guys know the reliability of these products, i snapped the weld on my c-pillar brace while taking a corner, which is the whole reason for buying the product in the first place...had a buddy of mine weld it over again and it's held up.

so far my mid-chassis brace has held up through some pretty bad scrapes and bumps though. i wouldn't call it a brace though, more like an oil pan protector. increase in chassis rigidity was minimal.

overall:
c-pillar: looks = 2; performance = 1
mid-brace: looks = 4; performance = 7

scale: 1-10

 

+1

 

Hey guys.

My name's Jared. Ive been a long time fan/customer of TB Performance and was actually his first sale 3 years ago for my Mazdaspeed3. You might have seen me handling posts, emails, and even talking to some of you on the phone from time to time! Ive been helping Danny out part time as he is only 1 person and since moved into the new shop, he needs a bit of help from time to time. I will be taking over the entire operation in regards to sales and marketing and want you to know that if you have questions, concerns, or ideas, I will be answering them to the best of my knowledge as I can. ALL feelings/pasts aside. I will start now on this Thursday night.

Derrick,
I've personally done body work on you and your girlfriends car now. I am amazed that you were able to snap the welds on a C-pillar brace! This has never been brought up to us through Underground Society who installed your parts or to me as your personal friend? I'd really appreciate it if you brought your car by the shop so we could check it out, and we will compensate you for your time, as this would be a first! If anyone has ANY issue with any of our parts, I'd hope they'd know the door is open to full replacement/refund.. Pics on here or to our email would be greatly appreciated Derrick!

Jared @ TB

 

If you are the same guys that make that under body brace that looks like a ladder with one long leg, then yes I did. I am trying to help and not ridicule or bash. I thought you guys have the skill to fabricate a reasonable product, but you guys declined my offer. You guys are definitely technicians and definitely not engineers. With a little guidance, you could have had a great product…now you’ve got a half-azz weight addition to the car.

You put rubber in between????!!!!!!!!!!! That needs to be a solid joint to be any good.

I offered…you declined…good luck in your endeavors.

 

Its almost impossible to quantify the performance of any brace for a human. You can only compare but even then the conditions would have to be perfectly identical

Look around and you'll see reviews that use the word "feel" more than any other because its very subjective. Plus placebo effect/high expectations


The best review would be to have it installed secretly on somebodys car and then wait until they say something about the car being different.

Also it is very hard/expensive to measure the forces that are being exerted on the brace whereas the spring rate/drop is easily measured visually or with a ruler and a block of known mass.....


I think these guys have really affordable prices and if they have good return policy I dont see the reason in fighting. Just try it out

You all ask for data but if they had the equipment to actually measure the forces that would be meaningful to you then the price of these would be 5 times more and performance increase would be marginal



btw 2Tc, your avatar makes you look plain creepy

 

New and improved...you like my new stockings?

 

what scion202 said. Numbers schmumbers...we all know at this point that performance part numbers are just as accepted/rejected as words. Buy the brace. If you don't like it, get your money back and come post a crappy review.....if you do, than you got a good part at a good price. If you're a numbers guy, download a gforce app on your iphone and take it for a spin.

 

So, its okay for a company to release a product for public use without having the proper equipment for R & D, simply because of its price tag? I'm not saying that this product hasn't gone through the proper R & D, nor am I saying TB Performance does not have the proper equipment. I'm saying that what I'm asking for isn't unreasonable for a product that is new and has had several posts regarding its relevance, and several questions regarding comparison data. Is that what you want, never knowing if there is actual data backing the 'feel' that you think you have after installing the bar?

Would it matter if the increase is "marginal"? Any show in increase would be good, wouldn't it?

I'm pretty sure you can find in most forums that numbers are significant. How many times have you seen a post where someone claims a hp number and the next person writes "Pictures/Video/Dynosheet or it didn't happen"? You may argue that this is different because it has to do with suspension, but the principle is the same.

Ok, let's say I buy the brace. Has there been an official statement regarding refunding? Will they cover shipping on the way back if I decide I don't want the product? Why go through all that hassle?

^ This is what I expect from a good company. Addressing issues with solutions and without all the mud-slinging.

 

@Zero,

If a part ever breaks due to an error that was created by us.. perhaps faulty quality control, welds, etc. It's always been the policy to send out a new part or issue a full refund when the old one is sent back. We would provide a prepaid shipping order in this instance. This has not happened once however.

As far as you not wanting the product, I would definitely want to know why first of all.
We have never had a brace returned since Danny started this business for an unnoticeable difference in handling. If you were the first one though, we'd refund you the money and have the bar shipped back no questions asked.

Jared

 

I wholeheartedly agree and would not request a refund without a reasonable explanation. I'm glad to read that your warranty is as good as any establishment in the aftermarket world.

I have been interested in these products ever since they have been introduced in the 2nd Gen forums. However, previous posters have brought up good points.

I'm far from perfect, and I'd like to be as informed as possible before I make a decision on purchasing, as I have made mistakes in the past. I feel that it is my responsibility as a consumer to attain all the information I can on something I may install on my car. I have no delusions of extremely heightened performance for any aftermarket item in the marketplace. Nor do I feel that I am owed anything, as I am just a person sitting behind a keyboard, researching something that I may or may not purchase. I'm no tire-kicker, as anyone can tell you on this forum, if I want something, I will put the money up for it. All that really matters is finding if the product makes a difference, no matter how minuscule or substantial. If there is data to show that, as I and others were told there was, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

We appreciate your honesty, and a well thought genuine response. We will definitely be putting up some numbers ASAP. That request is definitely warranted.

Jared

 

But you still haven’t answered our biggest concern…rubber isolating a chassis brace. Did you ever buy a chassis brace that was rubber isolated? Why would we buy a rubber isolated chassis brace from you? That is like buying a front tower brace that was rubber isolated! That would completely negate the purpose of it. You are saying that you are stiffening up the chassis with the brace, yet allowing all the flex to be absorbed by the rubber isolators. Do you see why we are all very skeptical of your “Z” brace?

 

Wow, if you got a performance of 7/10 from their mid-chassis brace (under the car), you would get 14/10 from the one I’ve designed…

 

Totally agree. What I mean is that in the same forums you will get numbers posted, and some will say the gains are awesome; but you'll get some that insist the numbers are faulty/argue about variables. In this instance, TB could post the numbers all they want and those that don't like some aspect of the brace will still come back on something else. They can post fighter jet g's and the clamps will still be under attack. Not saying that's not warranted, but am saying the numbers alone aren't necessarily going to fix anything in this instance.

 

But, they will. Data is going to get their foot in the door, for me. It will get me to try the product and judge for myself. Especially, since their warranty is great (Unsatisfied = Refund + Prepaid shipping). My argument is that a difference should be shown in data. It would be enough to warrant a trial. Products will always be under scrutiny from someone. That doesn't mean they should stop developing and proving their relevance. I don't speak for everyone on here, but data was requested because we were told it existed.

 

I missed the numbers exist part. I personally would like to see the numbers, but I tend to view this part the same way I viewed buying my motor mount. More of like a try it and find out thing. For me the price offsets the lack of empirical data, I just have to see for myself. But for a man like yourself who has invested far more than me into the car, I understand blind trials are not in the cards.

.....oh and a better way of expressing the arbitrary effect of the numbers in this instance....the numbers aren't going to take away from the primary skepticism which seems to be the effectiveness/longevity of the clamps.

 

That is what I would love to do...just to prove a point.

 

I have purchased both the Trunk and C-Pillar brace. I haven't yet bought the Z-Brace due to the facts that my friends and I cannot see the brackets holding up to the rigidity that is needed for good performance. Numbers would be great to see to buy me in the idea of purchasing it. It's no big deal to me if the brackets are made of plastic, metal or some other type of material, as long as, it has the numbers to prove that it is worth buying no matter how small the difference is.

To me, if the brackets break, I will just contact TB Performance, and if they do not follow through with any type of refund, I will just fab up my own bracket that will hold up.

They're a company and should adhere to all compliances of selling a product that legitimately works as stated, not so much the quality of how long it's going to last (even though this would be a great plus).