Hey guys,

First time posting here. Currently I have a 96 Grand Am SE (5spd) with 135,000 miles. She's starting to all apart and is pretty much a money pit. I was/am considering a Pontiac Vibe/Toyotoa Matrix as my brother owns a Vibe and the 4 doors and hatch are very practical as is the fuel economy. I have test driven various cars at this point in my search for my next vehicle:

2003 Honda Accord EX (auto)
2001 Nissan Maxima GLE (5spd)
2003 Nissan Sentra Spec 5 (6spd)
2003 Subara Legacy (auto)
2003 Honda Civic LX (5 spd)

So far the Sentra and Maxima were the most fun to drive (horsepower), however with the price of gas I'd be a fool to purchase my next car based on power rather then fuel economy. I was considering a xB for it's traction control (winters suck here) but they are more then I want to pay. I did take a peak at an xA and even sat in the backseat of one but I just got out really quick and really didn't consider them because I wanted a Pontiac Vibe.

Well now I'm hearing of Vibes/Matrix having issues with their 5 speeds and the clutches wearing prematurely so I'm re-thinking about looking at the Scion lineup. I'm really considering an xA because everytime I see one on the highway I'm thinking "Wow, that's a cool car, what is that.....whoa...that was an xA???" So my first question is how much room is there in the backseat? Yes, I did sit in the back of one but that was for about 2 seconds and I didn't adjust the front seats to see how much room I would have. My question...can you fit 2 adults in their somewhat comfortably??? Second question, I know they aren't speed machines but are they able to at least merge on the highway at 65mph??? Going from my 2.4 4cycle 150hp/150lb. torgue I understand these smaller engines have to reach higher RPM to attain their horsepower, however will it be able to make it to 65mph before merging?

I know I should go and test drive one but none of the dealers around here have them. They say they sell right off the truck which I don't believe. I'd never buy a car without driving one. Anyway, I'm hoping to test one out and buy one because I'm sick of looking for a car and I love the looks of these xA's.

Thanks,
Juelze

 

Two adults can sit in the back without any real issues....provived they aren't 6'8".

As for the power? There's only so much you can do with a 100hp no matter how you crunch the numbers. But that said, you'll have no issues keeping up with traffic. If you do a fair amount of highway driving you may want to consider an automatic. The auto is turning about 2950rpm @ 70mph vs. about 3500rpm @ 70mph with the 5-speed. It just makes for a slightly quieter drive.

 

Before I got mine, I sat in the drivers seat...adjusted it to my likeing. Then jumped into the back seat to see if I could fit back there. No problems with fitment being I'm 6'3.

 

You sound a lot like me when I was shopping around. It was about 2 months ago that I got rid of my 2001 Grand Am GT (auto) and got my 5 sp xA.
The back seat area is fine for 2 adults, perhaps a little less footroom that the Grand Am. The xA is just as roomy in the front, which I still find surprising. Just today driving around I was asking myself why I waited so long to get one of these. It just doesn't look that roomy from the outside.
You'll be giving up that nice accelleration starting up. But once the car is going, I'd say about 40, acceleration isn't a problem. I haven't felt any lack of power for normal highway driving. Sure, if you decide to floor it, you're not going to take off like you used to, but I haven't felt anything lacking on the highway so far. The biggest thing I miss is the getting up to speed quickly. With my 6 cyl. car, I just took off and left everybody behind in the dust. Now I can't do that anymore. It's just the price you pay for better MPG. I think it was a fair trade. Besides, it gives everyone else a chance to get a look at your cool lookin' ride.
Also the Scion cars are built better than any Pontiac. Years from now it won't be falling apart if you take care of it. I got tired of putting lots of time and money to keep my American cars running well, only to have them develop a major breakdown, no matter how much I totally pampered the car. From here on no more domestic cars for me!
You may want to look at the articles posted on this site on recent Toyota/Scion sales. They are selling really well now, and it is possible that the dealer can't keep them on the lot. They usually stay there 3-4 days now as an average.
As far as the winter driving, I'm getting snow tires. From what I've read around this forum, that seems to work pretty well. I sure get my share of bad winters as well.

Good luck!!

 

Thanks for the advice guys. I greatly appreciate it!

 

I too really like the Vibe 5spd..I've never heard of the tranny issues your talking about. If your interested in some more research in the vibe check out www.genvibe.com . The xA is definatley a great car you should try to test drive, and your dealer wasn't lieing, they DO sell right off the truck! The Vibe is more expensive but you're getting a lot more car for the money. If you're on a budget, I'd say definatley go with the xA, However, if you hav an extra 3-4k, I'd say do a bit more research on the Vibe, it is a great car also and is much easier to get ahold of than an xA. Good luck with your decision!

 

I hate to be a cold shower here but, while you can put 2 adults in the back seat, they won't like it after a while and you will soon find out that 100 hp isn't enuff to move them. It can be done, but it won't be done effortlessly.

I love my little car and I got it because of that fact...my kids are grown, so it's just the wife and me that go anywhere in it and it is great for 2 people....I can really tell a difference with just 3 people, 4 will change the way you look at the car forever.

Just my .02

 

I think the back seat is roomier then the front.
Of corse I'm 5'4"

 

if you want to carry adults in the back seat on a regular basis I think you'd want a car with a bit more leg room in the back seat and a bit more power under the hood. if you just use the backseat for children under 12 or occasionally for adults on short trips then that shouldn't be an issue.

 

Hey again guys.

I don't plan on hauling on 4 adults often. Just once in awhile it would be nice. The backseats got to be better then my 2 door Grand Am. The Vibes are nice but the GT models have issues with their clutches and I heard from an owner of a Matrix (base model) having to replace his clutch after 22,000 miles. My brother and I are both members of genvibe.com (i joined to ask questions) and they are the ones who stated there are some issues with the toyotoa trannies being junky at times.

Hmmm...excellent points made by all of you. It's so hard for me to make up my mind on a vehicle I gotta drive for 6 years+.

 

Oh, anyone hear anything about Nissan's new Versa? 4 door hatchback with a standard 6 speed manual.

 

I checked one out about a week ago (not to buy, just to look at). I'm still out on the exterior styling though.....there's just something about the back end....just not sure. The interior was pleasant but not all that fresh looking. In fact, the darker interior looked a bit dated, though the lighter one looked better. It's certainly a larger car than the xA, that's for sure.

The local dealer had a base 6 speed for $14,500 and a more loaded model for $17,400.

For the money, there are probably better cars....at least better looking. But that's just my opinion.

 

The backseat is fine for short trips with 4 adults. You have to flog the engine more to get it moving, but it moves along just fine. The xA is a lot of bang for the buck.

 

Damn. I can never make up my mind with car buying. I usually am an impulse buyer to an extent saying "This is the car I'm definitely going to buy!" only to change my mine days later. The Versa isn't the most attractive car compared to the xA but it appears there is a lot more space in the rear seat. In fact the review I read at http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm...&ReviewID=1935 states that it has as much rearview room as a Camry and almost a Chevy Suburban. The 6 spd would be nice to get the power out of the little engine and it has 122hp and 127ft. lb. of torque that comes on at an amzaing 2400 RPM. That's appealing as having a 2.4 liter 4 cycl I'm used to having a fair amount of lower end torque compared to the smaller 4 cyclinder engines out there.

So from what I have gathered the xA I was planning on building compared to the Nissan Versa with the power package I'm only $350 more into the Versa for more room, 6 spd manual, and more power. The big plus is both share the same fuel economy.

Only one thing left to do.....test drive both of them!

-Juelze

 

You might want to add the extendd warranty into the price of the Versa.....And make sure you get a loaner car.......

Ask yourself, how many older Nissans vs older Toyotas do you see running around your town? I notice more older Nissans are barely running around this town.

Again, JMHO

 

I had never heard Nissan quality was lacking. I had always veiwed their reputation as just every slightly lower than Toyota and Honda. I'm sure you can look at reliability ratings either on the web or in magazines like consumer reports to determine if it is a well made car.

I didn't realize the Versa had as good a fuel economy as the xA. That surprises me. I don't like the look of the Versa, but if you don't mind it, then it would definitely be worth looking at. Look into reliability ratings before just dismissing Nissan's quality.

 

Look at used car prices...Nissan's are always lower....at least around here....
I wish that they were better made cars, I really like some of them..

 

All new Nissans comes with a 36,000 miles 3 year warranty and a 60,000 5 year warranty just like Toyota and Scion. I see a lot of old Nissans running around. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting an old Nissan Stanza. Anyway, I always regard Honda, Toyota and Nissan as having high reliability. However, I was shocked to learn that the Toyota Matrix XRS and the Pontiac Vibe GT (same engine and trans) have a lot of problems their clutches going after 20,000-40,000 miles. I have a 96 Grand Am 2.4 which are notoriously bad engines and my transmission is still running even though it's starting to go after 134,000 miles on it. Listen. you can have a problem with any vehicle. I've read of people buying a new Honda because they heard they were reliable and having nothing but problems. No car manufactuer is immune from design flaws or having the occasional lemon.

Although the Versa doesn't look as cool as the xA I'll have to see it in person. From what I read there is plenty of room for passengars in the backseat and the reviewer compared the room to that of a Camry. Having a 6 spd manual would be a godsend and should be done in more sub 2.0 liter 4 cylinders to make the most of the tiny amount of horsepower they have. Just think if the xA's had a 6 gear, that would make them run quieter at highway speeds, would they not? Also, with 90% of the 127 ft.lb. of torque coming it at 2400 RPM that makes me more interested in the Versa over the xA from a performance standpoint. I know you have to sacrifice performance for mileage but the Versa seems to make it less of a sacrifice.

But no diss on the xA owners. As I mentioned, I'm going to test drive both hopefully in the near future and make my decision then.

Thanks again for all your advice guys!
Juelze

 

A 6 speed in the xA would definitely be an improvement. It would allow the reasonable acceleration the current car has, but allow for a lower RPM at highway cruising speeds. That would make it quieter and would make it have better highway MPG ratings. I bet it would get at least 40 MPG Highway EPA ratings if it was geared differently. I'm sure it would add cost though.

 

Juelze, no dis taken from this xA owner.... I'd LOVE to have 127 ft.lb on tap....and a 6 spd would be nice if the ratios are right....and with most of the torque available at 2400, it sounds like Nissan might have the ratios right, unless you are cruising at 70 below 2000rpm. I like the look of the Versa, I wish they would bring the Cube over as well...