SatsumaxA

EPA has been researching a hybrid that adds $600 to manufacturing cost but gives you this:
Test vehicle is mid-sized sedan ,3800lbs ---

70% savings on brake system wear
30%-40% increase in acceleration performance
50%-60% fuel economy increase

Final test drive equivilent to 80MPG with full passanger load and A/C on in test vehicle. while improving 0-60MPH time to 8sec.Link is below, but technology is in use with fleet of 10 UPS vehicles. Converting a FWD automobile would simply require installing rear transaxle plus hydraulic system. This also converts to RWD operation during acceleration, xA wheelie would be cool!!! System actually reclaims kinetic energy lost during braking, and hydraulic systems are 85%-90% efficient.

DarkBoxJr

If you really are doing this for economic reasons, I'm just going to laugh at you. And just because you drive an electric car doesn't mean you've severed yourself from petroleum industry.

If anything, do this for the "I own the only electric xA" reason, otherwise you're just kidding yourself.

sotx_scion

Checked out the ebox.....wow!!! But $55,000 for the coversion?? OUCH!

Dwatts5250

What kind of MPG do we get on our gas Scions?
Versus the "proposed 34 Miles on EV"...
The idea of a Hybrid or pure EV xA, sounds great...but the rewards dont sound like they come up all the good.

SatsumaxA

Don't you think the hydraulic hybrid, as presented by the EPA , that doubles current MPG while improving acceleration by 30% and reduces brake wear 70%, are reward enough to add $600 to production costs?

Dwatts5250

Uh huh....going back to my original question. What's the total amount being spent to "retrofit" the xA to be an EV?
I dont care about increased braking...people are still going to drive like idiots. :/

thwang99

Final cost will be around $22 to $25k. You had to ask! Yes it's definitely not for economical reasons that we're doing this project, it's more for the coolness, but I think eventually electric cars will become commonplace, whether powered fuel cell, battery, supercaps, etc...

Dwatts5250

Well, that's not too bad. Anything over 25k tho....then its starts to look alittle less appitizing. But I'd like to see the project when its done. Anything but a Priuus...looks like a roach on wheels.

SatsumaxA

Dwatts5250. Carefully read my post closely, the term is Hydraulic hybrid and has nothing to do with hydrogen,fuel cells, batteries or electric motors - check out the link in my quote below....retrofit will double MPG and boost acceleration 30% - 40% cost is @ $600 - EV systems are expensive and reclaiming retrofit expense through fuel savings is improbable. Link is to EPA website and they boast that hydraulic hybrids = "A Proven Approach"!!

burstaneurysm

Interesting theory, but I think it'd be tricky even at 80 miles per charge. Say goodbye to roadtrips. It you can get it to work, congrats.

tc_is_for_turbo_charged

So you are decreasing your range from about almost 400 miles per tank to 45-ish per day, want to add cameras and monitor instead of mirrors (more electricity= less milage), doubling the price of your car, drastically decreasing the resale value of your car, and don't think that the elecricity from the wall socket isn't comming from a pollution creating source like a fossil fuel burning power plant or nuclear waste producing power plant?

All this to go 0-60 in MAYBE 8-9 seconds? Even trying to justify it by being a "cool" project . xA is a "neat" little car. I have one because it is already economical. For that kind of money you can buy a used prius and figure out how to turbocharge it.

Good luck guy, hopefully you can make me eat my words.

thwang99

You're kidding about the camera, right? ;) Electricity to power a video camera & LCD is VERY VERY little compared to the amount needed to move the car. Even headlights which take an order of magnitude more energy won't make a difference too. AC and heating will, though (same as a gas car, though in a gas car the heater is "always on").

The pollution from electrical generation per mile is MUCH less compared to gas per mile. Common misconception. And if you consider oil well to wheel pollution, it's even a bigger difference. For each gallon of gas, you also have to add in pollution caused by extracting the gas, and transporting the gas, refining the gas, etc.

The electric grid is becoming cleaner every year, as renewable generation sources come online (hydro, wind, cleaner generators, better technologies, etc).

But yeah, the range definitely sucks compared to a gas car. It's definitely going to be a in town car . 90% of the time, the range will be fine (commuting, groceries, visiting friends in town, etc). The other 10%, we have our gas car. If we can get mileage up to say, 120 miles per charge, it should cover everything except out of town long trips, which may be like once or twice a month, hopefully.

It would be great if EVs could get say, a 600 mile range. That should cover a day's worth of driving, assuming you could charge at night in your hotel room, etc, on long trips. A 2000 mile range would be awesome, it would cover the times you can't charge and let u drive a few full days without charging. Hopefully someday battery technology will get there! Battery capacity is improving each year, but at a much slower pace than Moore's law.

- Tony

Dwatts5250

Ok...uh...I dont know whose post I went to that had a link on it that showed an xA being dismantled and batteries were involved = Electric Vehicle.... Im guessing somewhere in this mix Ive mistaken one for the other. While I do know the difference between the Hydraulic hybrid and a Electric Vehicle, I apologize if I got your post mixed up with someone elses..not my intention..... I know I saw it on one of the posts....Im not crazy....not yet...

Dwatts5250

evconvert.blogspot.com

Iride_xB04

you should go all the way and make it a hybrid. that would be sick

oldmanatee

Why do I keep getting a picture of someone with an electric ar knocking on their friends door for a visit with a bottle of wine in one hand and an extension cord in the other?

thwang99

hahaha, that is good though. like "free gas". As for making it into a series hybrid, that's much more difficult. You can't just put a generator in the car since apparently commercial generators don't meet EPA standards for cars. A parallel hybrid is even harder for the mechanical reasons.

stonecoldnimrod

could you use your 'homemade' hybrid or electric as a tax credit when you file your annual income taxes?

SatsumaxA

Double the MPG on our Scions would save 38cents per gallon in state taxes for Louisiana, so yeah it would be a tax credit in that sense!

spike443

I say, good luck Bro! The more people who try to make gasoline-alterative cars work, real-world style, the more we will learn, the better we'll be at it and the less dependent we will be on oil. Obviously elimination is not an option, but we can lessen our use.