An attempt at 24whp, normally aspirated
06-11-2005, 08:21 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: southern california
Posts: 41
An attempt at 24whp, normally aspirated
I the next 60 days, I'm going to try and get 24whp out of my Xb, no blower, no turbo, no nitrous, and here is the plan: 
Stage One - 8HP
Injen Intake
DC Header
MagnaFlow Cat Back
I hope to get 8hp out of this combo. Import Tuner got close to 7hp with a combo similar to this on their test at Power Pages: 2003 Scion XB. Now that test had a DC muffler which was worth less than 1hp and Import Racer got 5whp from the MagnaFlow alone in their article MagnaFlow Bolts On Some xB Power . I feel confident that the combo above can make 8whp based on these documented dyno runs.
Stage Two - 8HP
Camcon
I'll be hooking up the new camcon late next week. The celica in Import Tuner gained 14.1whp on a base of 143.6 which is a gain of 9.8% (let's call it 10%). ScottsdaleTC picked up 12 WHP in his post here at Scionlife. It's hard to tell from the graph but it looks like from a baseline of 137.5. This is a gain of 8.7WHP or let's call it 9% for easy math. With stage one installed, I believe the engine will be near 90whp and a 9% gain is 8HP.
Stage Three - 8HP
Extrude Hone the Intake Manifold, Cylinder Head, and Header
Possibly shave the head to increase compression slightly
This is the last and riskiest stage. These are things I don't believe anyone has attempted on a Scion. This is synonymous with "port and polish". Extrude Hone is a maching procedure where an abrasive putty is forced through various orifices or ports of the engine's air path. It is sometimes referred to as AFM or abrasive flow machining. F1 and Winston Cup race teams extrude hone various engine components. Nascar teams have gone to extruding their brand new stainless steel headers to a internal mirror finish...slowing the buildup of carbon. They then re-do the headers at given intervals to keep the ports as smooth as possible.
In 5.0L Ford Dyno Tests, Richard Holdener did a dyno run on a stock 5L Ford 302 vs that same engine with the heads and intake EH-ported. Peak numbers for stock were 207HP@5100 and 270TQ@3700, where peak numbers on the ported were 243@5100 and 292@3700. This is a 37whp gain over stock or 17.8%. The Toyota VVTi engine is already a tricked out piece, and so it would be nice to see 10% gains. 10% would be another 8-10RHP.
I'd also like to shave the cylinder head to shrink the combustion chambers, upping the compression slightly. I've haven't taken the engine apart yet and so I don't know if this is possible since it depends on the piston to valve clearance. I'm hoping that maybe one or two people on the forum that did turbo and blower testing might be able to advise me on this.
That's my plan. I get the cylinder head and intake manifold on Monday (roughly $800 from Claremont Scion). The Dyno for Stage2 is booked for the 29th, but the lads at Westech said they might be able to sneak me in late on the 17th. One of my scion friends has a buddy who is a Lexus mechanic and he may do the cylinder head install work. I should be back at the dyno for Stage3 in late July. I'm fairly confident in gaining 24whp, and there is a good chance that the number might be 30 or as high as 35. I'll report back to the forum with graphs and pics from each trip to the dyno.
thanks for your time
Andy
http://www.piratesofhorsepower.com
http://www.cobralads.com
Stage One - 8HP
Injen Intake
DC Header
MagnaFlow Cat Back
I hope to get 8hp out of this combo. Import Tuner got close to 7hp with a combo similar to this on their test at Power Pages: 2003 Scion XB. Now that test had a DC muffler which was worth less than 1hp and Import Racer got 5whp from the MagnaFlow alone in their article MagnaFlow Bolts On Some xB Power . I feel confident that the combo above can make 8whp based on these documented dyno runs.
Stage Two - 8HP
Camcon
I'll be hooking up the new camcon late next week. The celica in Import Tuner gained 14.1whp on a base of 143.6 which is a gain of 9.8% (let's call it 10%). ScottsdaleTC picked up 12 WHP in his post here at Scionlife. It's hard to tell from the graph but it looks like from a baseline of 137.5. This is a gain of 8.7WHP or let's call it 9% for easy math. With stage one installed, I believe the engine will be near 90whp and a 9% gain is 8HP.
Stage Three - 8HP
Extrude Hone the Intake Manifold, Cylinder Head, and Header
Possibly shave the head to increase compression slightly
This is the last and riskiest stage. These are things I don't believe anyone has attempted on a Scion. This is synonymous with "port and polish". Extrude Hone is a maching procedure where an abrasive putty is forced through various orifices or ports of the engine's air path. It is sometimes referred to as AFM or abrasive flow machining. F1 and Winston Cup race teams extrude hone various engine components. Nascar teams have gone to extruding their brand new stainless steel headers to a internal mirror finish...slowing the buildup of carbon. They then re-do the headers at given intervals to keep the ports as smooth as possible.
In 5.0L Ford Dyno Tests, Richard Holdener did a dyno run on a stock 5L Ford 302 vs that same engine with the heads and intake EH-ported. Peak numbers for stock were 207HP@5100 and 270TQ@3700, where peak numbers on the ported were 243@5100 and 292@3700. This is a 37whp gain over stock or 17.8%. The Toyota VVTi engine is already a tricked out piece, and so it would be nice to see 10% gains. 10% would be another 8-10RHP.
I'd also like to shave the cylinder head to shrink the combustion chambers, upping the compression slightly. I've haven't taken the engine apart yet and so I don't know if this is possible since it depends on the piston to valve clearance. I'm hoping that maybe one or two people on the forum that did turbo and blower testing might be able to advise me on this.
That's my plan.
I get the cylinder head and intake manifold on Monday (roughly $800 from Claremont Scion). The Dyno for Stage2 is booked for the 29th, but the lads at Westech said they might be able to sneak me in late on the 17th. One of my scion friends has a buddy who is a Lexus mechanic and he may do the cylinder head install work. I should be back at the dyno for Stage3 in late July. I'm fairly confident in gaining 24whp, and there is a good chance that the number might be 30 or as high as 35. I'll report back to the forum with graphs and pics from each trip to the dyno.thanks for your time
Andy
http://www.piratesofhorsepower.com
http://www.cobralads.com
06-11-2005, 11:22 PM
#4
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SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Navarre, FL
Posts: 2,170
IIRC the 1NZ-FE engine puts down about 92whp stock. For your power adders I would go with these parts.
CAI.
Header.
2.25 Custom header back, w/2.25" free flow cat + 2.25" resenator (sound reasons)
Lighter Crank Pulley.
Flywheel.
Light Weight Wheels.
The Camcon thing.
Grounding Kit.
Say with 3whp per part, that would get you 24hp right there. So 24+92=116hp. Now you could do a port & polish on the head. As for the intake manifold IDK. That thing is plastic, so im not sure how much you could do with it. Some company made a bigger then stock TB for the Echo, so you might be able to find one. I just cant recall if that thing caused anyproblems. Thats just what I would think of doing. Now we all know that over all power might not be that high in the end. The Flywheel & wheels are to reduce rotating mass, so it might drop your low end TQ a little, but should help the top end some. Good lucj & keep us posted on what you do
CAI.
Header.
2.25 Custom header back, w/2.25" free flow cat + 2.25" resenator (sound reasons)
Lighter Crank Pulley.
Flywheel.
Light Weight Wheels.
The Camcon thing.
Grounding Kit.
Say with 3whp per part, that would get you 24hp right there. So 24+92=116hp. Now you could do a port & polish on the head. As for the intake manifold IDK. That thing is plastic, so im not sure how much you could do with it. Some company made a bigger then stock TB for the Echo, so you might be able to find one. I just cant recall if that thing caused anyproblems. Thats just what I would think of doing. Now we all know that over all power might not be that high in the end. The Flywheel & wheels are to reduce rotating mass, so it might drop your low end TQ a little, but should help the top end some. Good lucj & keep us posted on what you do
06-13-2005, 07:36 AM
#9
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IV ACE
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Hollywood, So. Cal.
Posts: 600
Does the Scion really do 92 whp? I put down 97 WHP/102 ft lbs stock dirty air filter, APEXi N1 Axel back exhaust, 91 octane and synthetic fluids, rolling on 16x7 5Zigen FN01R-C. ____! I need to dyno my car again then, since then I got my intake and ground wires put on.
06-13-2005, 08:27 AM
#10
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SL Member
Team N.V.S.
Originally Posted by 05_camo_boxb
iwas told that crower does cam regrinds but not sure if its true ,,,you might wann agive thenm a call....
06-15-2005, 04:30 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: southern california
Posts: 41
Updates...
The cylinder head, intake manifold, DC header, and the Camcon all arrived today. Yay! Here are some pics and comments about each.
Camcon
The factory ECU is right under the glovebox and has four plugs. The Camcon hacks into plugs 1,2 and 4. I've placed black cable ties around the wires the camcon uses. On plug 1 it is the three lower left wires. On plug 2 it's the middle pink wire second from the bottom and on plug 4 it's the upper right. The wiriing is digrammed on page 10 of the manual.
picture
The camcom comes with wiring charts for several engines and the Xb is TO-07. Readthe manual once or twice. I called Power Enterprise today and they were very good about answering tech questions.
picture
Head
Here is the cylinder head on the Xb
picture
I have to admit that I am impressed by the engineering. This is the first double overhead cam head that I've seen or touched. I'm used to bigger V8s with rocker arms and pushrods. With the cams right on the valves, so much weight is removed and the engines can rev much higher. Here is a pic from where the two cams would sit.
picture
Here is a view from the exhaust side where the header plugs into.
picture
Here is a picture from the intake side.
picture
And here is the combustion chamber with room for four valves per cylinder. I was surprised how small the combustion chamber is. This is there the pistons come up to and then get blasted down. The intake valves always a little large than the exhaust.
picture
Stage three of my plan above is to extrude hone the three engine components...here is the reason why...when you cast metal, there is often casting flash or a roughness on many of the ports. Here is an example of the gritty walls of one port.
picture
This roughness slows air flow. The more air you can push through an engine, the more power you can make. When someone says they are going to "port and polish" a head, it usually means they are going to take a die grinder and remove this roughness. Porting generally removes more material than just polishing and usually the person is trying to alter the shape of the port in someway. This is more common on V8 heads since the air has to turn corners. That last picture was the exhaust port. Here is one of the intake side...it is smoother but still gritty.
picture
Intake Manifold
The Scion Xb has a rare polimer intake...normally these are aluminum but more and more modern engines are going to plastics.
picture
Plastic is cheaper to make and form and one great thing about it is that it does not transmit heat as easily, giving the engine a cooler air charge. Here is where the throttle body connects to which is then where our Injens and K&N intakes connect to. The air enters here and then is evenly distributed to the 4 combustion chambers to be exploded.
picture
Here is the side that connects to the head.
picture
When plastics are made in a mold, there is often a tiny bit of misalignment. The plastic ports are very smooth compared to the aluminum head castings, but they have some misaligned edges internally.
picture
Header
I really like the quality of the DC header. The welds are super smooth and I prefer ceramic coat to chrome.
picture
It's hard to see in this picture but there is always a tiny bit of flash and welds inside all headers.
picture
Tomorrow
Tomorrow I'll drive these three parts to Paramount City and hand them off to Extrude Hone Ed. Ed will then force the abrasive putty through them, achieving a close to mirror-like finish. I really should flow bench the heads before and after but I just don't feel like waiting. I am guessing a 10% gain in flow numbers for the head and intake. The numbers could be as high as 25% but I rather guess conservatively. I'm hoping this translates into 7-15 more wheel horsepower. Nobody has tried it before so it might translate into a blown engine. haha.
More updates as they happen.
Andy :D
My old blog on 408ci stroker 600hp+ adventures
http://www.piratesofhorsepower.com
My old blog on cobra kitcar adventures
http://www.cobralads.com
The cylinder head, intake manifold, DC header, and the Camcon all arrived today. Yay! Here are some pics and comments about each.
Camcon
The factory ECU is right under the glovebox and has four plugs. The Camcon hacks into plugs 1,2 and 4. I've placed black cable ties around the wires the camcon uses. On plug 1 it is the three lower left wires. On plug 2 it's the middle pink wire second from the bottom and on plug 4 it's the upper right. The wiriing is digrammed on page 10 of the manual.
picture
The camcom comes with wiring charts for several engines and the Xb is TO-07. Readthe manual once or twice. I called Power Enterprise today and they were very good about answering tech questions.
picture
Head
Here is the cylinder head on the Xb
picture
I have to admit that I am impressed by the engineering. This is the first double overhead cam head that I've seen or touched. I'm used to bigger V8s with rocker arms and pushrods. With the cams right on the valves, so much weight is removed and the engines can rev much higher. Here is a pic from where the two cams would sit.
picture
Here is a view from the exhaust side where the header plugs into.
picture
Here is a picture from the intake side.
picture
And here is the combustion chamber with room for four valves per cylinder. I was surprised how small the combustion chamber is. This is there the pistons come up to and then get blasted down. The intake valves always a little large than the exhaust.
picture
Stage three of my plan above is to extrude hone the three engine components...here is the reason why...when you cast metal, there is often casting flash or a roughness on many of the ports. Here is an example of the gritty walls of one port.
picture
This roughness slows air flow. The more air you can push through an engine, the more power you can make. When someone says they are going to "port and polish" a head, it usually means they are going to take a die grinder and remove this roughness. Porting generally removes more material than just polishing and usually the person is trying to alter the shape of the port in someway. This is more common on V8 heads since the air has to turn corners. That last picture was the exhaust port. Here is one of the intake side...it is smoother but still gritty.
picture
Intake Manifold
The Scion Xb has a rare polimer intake...normally these are aluminum but more and more modern engines are going to plastics.
picture
Plastic is cheaper to make and form and one great thing about it is that it does not transmit heat as easily, giving the engine a cooler air charge. Here is where the throttle body connects to which is then where our Injens and K&N intakes connect to. The air enters here and then is evenly distributed to the 4 combustion chambers to be exploded.
picture
Here is the side that connects to the head.
picture
When plastics are made in a mold, there is often a tiny bit of misalignment. The plastic ports are very smooth compared to the aluminum head castings, but they have some misaligned edges internally.
picture
Header
I really like the quality of the DC header. The welds are super smooth and I prefer ceramic coat to chrome.
picture
It's hard to see in this picture but there is always a tiny bit of flash and welds inside all headers.
picture
Tomorrow
Tomorrow I'll drive these three parts to Paramount City and hand them off to Extrude Hone Ed. Ed will then force the abrasive putty through them, achieving a close to mirror-like finish. I really should flow bench the heads before and after but I just don't feel like waiting. I am guessing a 10% gain in flow numbers for the head and intake. The numbers could be as high as 25% but I rather guess conservatively. I'm hoping this translates into 7-15 more wheel horsepower. Nobody has tried it before so it might translate into a blown engine. haha.
More updates as they happen.
Andy :D
My old blog on 408ci stroker 600hp+ adventures
http://www.piratesofhorsepower.com
My old blog on cobra kitcar adventures
http://www.cobralads.com
06-15-2005, 11:11 AM
#15
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,834
Chucksu, you wrote:
No, man. Rotating mass absorbs no power except when it must be accelerated. Then it stores power. Flywheel mass is not important at high rpm, but then too, it carries no power penalty at all. It only makes a -time to rev up- (or down) penalty.
Ergo, no need to reduce rotating mass for this project. OTOH, reduction of reciprocating mass is of -some small help- because not all of that can be balanced out.
----
what an interesting project, carried out scientifically and without "gee it's so much better now" self-assertions. Dynos don't mislead. Very cool work. Thank you.
The Flywheel & wheels are to reduce rotating mass, so it might drop your low end TQ a little, but should help the top end some.
Ergo, no need to reduce rotating mass for this project. OTOH, reduction of reciprocating mass is of -some small help- because not all of that can be balanced out.
----
what an interesting project, carried out scientifically and without "gee it's so much better now" self-assertions. Dynos don't mislead. Very cool work. Thank you.
06-16-2005, 04:55 AM
#17
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hood River, OR
Posts: 295
Sounds solid, Twiddler. You'll probably need to re-tune the camcon once you're done with the EH process. (They're nice guys, BTW. I organized a group buy with them a while back. Let me know if you need any contact info or anything).
Pully and flywheel aren't bad ideas. Light weight wheels, too. You might try porting/smoothing the TB as well. It's the little details that count!
Pully and flywheel aren't bad ideas. Light weight wheels, too. You might try porting/smoothing the TB as well. It's the little details that count!
06-16-2005, 08:12 AM
#19
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: southern california
Posts: 41
Hey Derk-xB, I plan to revisit the dyno for a second day after getting the honed parts back. You are right, I should of done the throttle body as well. I may try and order one this week and send it along.
Neckbonenick, thanks for the kinds words. Although this may get close to supercharger power levels, it tends to be expensive as well. It's too bad horsepower is rarely free. lol I'm curious to see if it will work and then how well it works.
Updates...
Took the parts to Extrude Hone today and the lads claim that heads can pick up 25% flow from the process. I've done CNC heads with them before and the ports are so smooth to start with that they only gain in the 5-10% range.
I found out there is a danger when flowing something like a closed intake...it become difficult to wash the material out at the end...and I guess it is the third hardest material on earth...if that grit gets sucked into the engine, the quote was "it's a hot knife through butter". Eeeeep! They are really going to make sure the intake is clean and I may toss it into my dish washer and washing machine once or twice to be safe as well.
Dyno tomorrow...
Rick at Westech called and said they the chassis dyno was open all day tomorrow if I wanted to use it. It will be a full pull with the camcom. I'm anxious to see what the baseline is with an injen, magnaflow, and DC header. Then we'll work on the camcon...I think it takes 20-30 runs to test enough data points to dial it in. I finished wiring the unit this morning and no smoke appeared when I turned the key. The unit seems to be working fine.
I hope to have SuperFlow dyno charts tomorrow night. I both enjoy and fear the dyno since I've lost two engines there in the past. :D haha I lost one on the engine dyno because of detonation (what do you mean you can't run 13.5:1 on 92 octane?) and I lost one on the chassis dyno...oil starvation due to reversed oil lines on my part. Tomorrow my fingers are crossed that nothing will blow up.
Neckbonenick, thanks for the kinds words. Although this may get close to supercharger power levels, it tends to be expensive as well. It's too bad horsepower is rarely free.
lol I'm curious to see if it will work and then how well it works.Updates...
Took the parts to Extrude Hone today and the lads claim that heads can pick up 25% flow from the process. I've done CNC heads with them before and the ports are so smooth to start with that they only gain in the 5-10% range.
I found out there is a danger when flowing something like a closed intake...it become difficult to wash the material out at the end...and I guess it is the third hardest material on earth...if that grit gets sucked into the engine, the quote was "it's a hot knife through butter". Eeeeep! They are really going to make sure the intake is clean and I may toss it into my dish washer and washing machine once or twice to be safe as well.
Dyno tomorrow...
Rick at Westech called and said they the chassis dyno was open all day tomorrow if I wanted to use it. It will be a full pull with the camcom. I'm anxious to see what the baseline is with an injen, magnaflow, and DC header. Then we'll work on the camcon...I think it takes 20-30 runs to test enough data points to dial it in. I finished wiring the unit this morning and no smoke appeared when I turned the key.
The unit seems to be working fine.I hope to have SuperFlow dyno charts tomorrow night. I both enjoy and fear the dyno since I've lost two engines there in the past. :D haha I lost one on the engine dyno because of detonation (what do you mean you can't run 13.5:1 on 92 octane?) and I lost one on the chassis dyno...oil starvation due to reversed oil lines on my part. Tomorrow my fingers are crossed that nothing will blow up.
