Newtmaker

In another post I mentioned that I was thinking about getting an aftermarket intake but couldn't decide the advantages of the K&N vs the YDR. Supposedly the K&N would be marginally better because it picks air at a farther point from the engine bay and therefore would be cooler.
I decided to take some readings with a common indoor/outdoor thermometer.
I taped the outdoor probe in the intake horn of the stock system and placed the main (indoor) box up on the windshield. I drove around for a few minutes to get the temp up to normal. The first pic I took was after warmup but sitting at idle. The intake temp was 107 degrees and the windshield temp was 84. Then I went driving again. Before I got a mile down the road the temps came down to what is shown in the pic.

fachiro1

hi newt!


what exactly are you trying to point out? There is only one pic. Is that before or after the drive?

t0p_sh0tta

The indoor probe should be placed under the hood, and not inside the vehicle. "Cold" air is usually that which is not located in the same compartment as the engine. e.g. Fender well.

Prototype_xB

/\/\ Going along with what t0p_sh0tta said......

also look into the material composition of the intake plumbing of whatever you may be looking for. Most "Cold" air intakes heat-soak to the point where they defeat their purpose. I've seen a few K&N intakes that are made of a high impact plastic that heat soak very minimal.

SciFly

I think there's a minor misunderstanding of Newtmaker.
And that is exactly correct. Maybe you guys have not seen the R.S. or other indoor/outdoor thermometers..

His method is exactly correct guys, and shows how little is to be gained by a "CAI" intake under normal condtions (air flowing into the engine compartment) -floods- the engine bay with outside air and this air never gets much hotter than ambient outside temps while we are moving along

A couple degrees difference is all a CAI can scoop up. In my opinion, the CAI main selling concept is bogus. Only if you can ram jam the air better with CAI, does it offer any advantage.

m'eye too scents.

Newtmaker

Thanks SciFly. I guess I didn't word it properly to be better understood. At any rate, I too wonder if the modest power increases that the manufacturers tout are a result of colder air or a shorter less contorted air path. I even wonder about the "heat sink" concern, as under normal driving the air spends so very little time in the pathway that I doubt it even has time to transfer much heat, if any.
I have no doubt that the power gains are real, albeit small. I just wonder where/what is the prime source??

Walt

slipknot490

Well, cold or not...the motto is and always will be...Fasterin, Faster out. And I'm sure my CAI flows WAY better than a stock airbox.
Good to know that it isn't much colder though. Although if you did the same test in the dead of winter up north, I'm sure there'd be a significant difference.

spirograph

I have a question about the aftermarket cold air intakes ? Has anyone had trouble with it getting wet or sucking in water.

SciFly

That''s one reason I lose interest in the CAI's as possibly advantageous, lower fricition air intakes.


The goal in any system is to get clean air with minimum restriction (friction)

A simple test: make a U-tube manometer and compare the inches of water lift measured between an xB stock and an xB with CAI.

It's so easy to do: install a tiny nipple at the engine side of the air intake. Now put a length of clear PVC tubing on that nipple. Carry the tubing into the cab. Fasten it crudely to a placard of cardboard, or simply tape it to the dash for the test. Make a U in the tube. Pour a bit of colored water into thte tube, to fill the bottom of the U

The slug of water will show some movement and such displacement as it makes to one leg of the U indicates "inches of water" suction. It is a sensitive test. Diameter of tubing does not matter.

If the liquid pulsates with engine induction, make a pinhole restriction to put into the suction line.

that's all there is to a manometer. Manometric testing will show pretty definitely just what a CAI can or can't do better than stock air intake.

I like the high, protected OEM air intake. I may and will have to plow through deep water some day. I'd like not to hydrolock the engine and ruin it thereby.
The end?

Kudos to Newt for bringing up this topic and laying it out so very well.
PS: as I think about it, you really want to have that pinhole restricion in the suction line of the manometer.

hotbox05

it is a combination of both a smoother path and colder air..

DisneybB

First I gotta say hey Walt!

I've been around a bit of racing in my days, most of which was with Dodge turbo cars. Shelby GLHS's and Omni's as well as my Spirit R/T and Shadow and we found out many things about how to go fast. First, if you iced down your intake manifold between runs it always ran faster. removing your exhaust slowed it down and colder yet dense air was always good. Ever drive your car on a cool morning (in Florida we have a few) and your car just seems to be full of pep? So, if you use a cold air intake it offers less restricted flow, just like a short ram but you get air away from your heat making engine. What I noticed is that if you have a 95 degree day in sunny Florida and the black top is 140F the air down by your bumper is plain HOT!!!! When it gets dark and cools down a bit you notice the power increase. So, if there is no cold air then any intake is nearly useless anyway. I bet the trottle body is a big restriction that no intake could overcome. I have a K&N Typhoon and do love the sound but I am thinking of making it into a SR so I don't have to worry about water.

akxb

First of all, hello, I am new to this site. I just bought an 06 xb a few weeks ago and have about 500 miles on it so far. THis thread really has me interested. I just bought a really cool tool that will help us figure out just how much cooler these cold air intakes are. http://www.scangauge.com/ This is a guage I bought and it can monitor more things than I've even had time to explore. Check it out! It plugs into your obd2 port and it easy to use.

One thing it gives a read out of is air intake temperature. This is a read out of what your air intake sensor is reading which is what your computer is going to base your fuel ratio on. So With this tool you are able to see real time this temp. Sit and idle and watch it go up, accelerate and watch it go down.

Now, this would be helpfull to do some comparing of stock vs cold air intake. I am bone stock right now so I have only monitored it in this condition. I just need to get an outdoor temp guage to compare to out door temperature. But if anyone has the time to do a comparison this would be interesting. THe scan gauge is very cheap, records tons of data and even reads trouble codes! Well worth the money![/url]

hotbox05

nice lil shameless plug.

Newtmaker

OK, I went to the website and it looks pretty interesting. Have you tried all the various functions on your xB? Do they all work? How about an update with some specific info as to what is really will do and what functions won't work.

Walt

Max

Newt, to make me consider your numbers worth looking at, you should have put a probe where the stock airbox is, and one where the CAI filter goes.

I know there was a greatly reduced throttle lag and a better sound, in addition to the power gain, plus my CAI looks nice. The benefits are not strictly power ralated.

Sciond

there has been studies that show that smoothe is not best that there should some striations on the intake and that is optimum

Newtmaker

Well, the temp probe was installed right at the end of the air horn next to the headlight. I believe that is essentially where most of the CAI's have their filters, or slightly lower. Putting the probe inside the filter box of the stock unit would probably produce a slightly higher temp when the car is stopped. When running down the road I doubt there would be any difference.
The point is, and SciFly brought this out, is that when driving the whole engine compartment is washed with outside air to the point that the temp of the air that is taken into the intake is essentially the same no matter where you place the intake point.

I agree with your point about looks, and I'm pretty sure you are right as to throttle response, etc. I don't have one so don't have personal experience. However, I do have the K&N filter installed and I at least think there is a slight improvement, especially at 2500 rpm and higher. Oh, yes, and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

Walt

Szeszek

Not to be annoying, but let's not forget what the purpose of the so-called "cold air induction" is:
The goal is to get more air squeezed into the cylinders to provide more burning-supporting material, hence generating more power. Cold air is better, because (remember taking physics?) all things (and especially loose-atom/compound gases) shrink as demperature drops. With that, we can fit more air compounds into the same physical space (cylinder).

We are NOT going to achieve very significant gains here. If air/fuel ratio was truly impacted, we would have to provide additional fuel management / bigger injectors. Is CAI working? YES - it definately increases power, but be skepical, when you see someone advertise SCION CAI and claim 20-30hp gains. I'm happy with ~4hp (and sound ) of gain on my xA (K&N Typhoon).

It's important to remember that what impacts CAI's efficiency is not only the temperature, but also the size (area) of your breathing element. Since your typical cone filter is exposed directly to air, it will collect more, than your stock "air box".

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to beat me with a 2x4, if you see any inconsistencies in my post.

Eski628

Definately not a myth. It made a noticable difference in my xA. Mine is not a normal intake though. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/775442
To see mine.

akxb

The only readings it doesn't give you is manifold pressure. I'm really liking this little tool! It has so many gauges wrapped into one package for under 150 bucks. I plan on comparing a stock and after market intake using this at some point. However I'm in Alaska and snow is on it's way soon. I might wait till after winter to purchase an intake. I guess I should start a seperate thread about the scan gauge...