cliffy1

I think this is probably a dumb question, but I've got to find out. Please excuse my ignorance about a few things here. I'm trying to deal with a problem with one of my customers and our service department. I can't get into the details of it, but I need some help to straighten things out.

If I understand it correctly, the standard air box has some kind of a bleed off hose that takes fuel vapor back to the charcoal canister. This is an emissions requirement. The purpose is to take fuel vapor that is still in the engine when you shut the car off and safety capture it so the fumes don't get into the atmosphere. Am I right so far?

All Cold Air Intake systems do away with this hose, don't they? That is a fairly useless system as the amount of fuel vapors is pretty minimal and it would just get in the way of the performance upgrade. That's how it was explained to me and I want to make sure I have the story correct.

If my understanding of this is correct, then in a technical sense, cold air intakes are not legal for street use. I know the TRD one we sell has a disclaimer about this. No emissions inspector I have ever met actually will fail a car for this, but they could because you've bypassed an emissions system.

Do I have it right? Any help in answering this would be greatly appreciated.

dexter_5000

charcoal canister is gets its vapors from the gas tank. the tube from the intake your thinking of i'm sure is the crankcase vent. which most intakes have.

xA_Factor

I installed an AEM CAI (the short one) on an '06 xB and the TRD/AEM CAI (the long one) on an '06 xA. In both cases, all hoses were accounted for...nothing was left unhooked or removed.

And yes, Dexter is right. The evap canister captures vapor from the fuel tank.

stew32

In the top of my 2006 xB's airbox, there was a charcoal filter built in. I'm pretty sure that's what you're talking about... There is no hose or anything disconnected after installing an intake. But that charcoal is why none of the intakes are CARB certified for the 2006's. I'm sure you'd fail inspection in CA because there is no CARB exemption for it. It won't matter anywhere else?

The charcoal filter must make a difference- Toyota wouldn't put it there otherwise. I have a Fujita SRI on my 2006 and I've sometimes thought I smelled gasoline when immediately opening the hood after shutting it off. Not very often though.

cliffy1

OK... that's what I needed. That makes sense.

Anybody else with info on this? I realize my question was based on ignorance about hoses, charcoal canisters and air filters, but the root of the question is about emissions equipment. So if I now understand it, there is a piece of emissions equipment that is absent in a CAI.

stew32

Correct. None of the aftermarket CAI or SRI have a charcoal filter. I'm not sure how much it matters considering it first appeared on the 2006's. I do not think it would cause anyone to fail an emissions inspection in VA since we do not have the same inspection requirements as CA.

If you're really concerned about it, you could use the "Blitz Induction Cover" that's in the xA/xB intake buyer's guide. https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55160

The charcoal filter is built into the top of the stock air box. Since the Blitz replaces only the lower air box, the vehicle would still have all the emissions components intact.

cliffy1

Unfortunately, I can't really can't explain why this is an issue. It has to do with a problem with my used car department and service department. That's really all I can say.

Now, let me follow up with another question here. You're saying the 2005 did not have the charcoal filter in the stock air box? So to replace it with a CAI has absolutely no impact on any emisions related equipment. Is that correct?

dexter_5000

yep only 2006 have that box filter built in. all models previous should not.

stew32

I'm almost positive the charcoal was new for 2006. That is why most intakes are CARB certified up to 2005 only. The charcoal filter is only for evaporative emissions after the car is shut off. It won't change the emissions while the car is running. It would only be a visual inspection failure, if that's even part of the VA inspection.

The intake can affect the other engine control components. Many intakes move the the vent from the valve cover to the intake to BEFORE the mass air flow sensor. This can, allegedly, cause the sensor to be contaminated with oil mist and not function correctly. That would affect the operation of the engine and the emissions. The stock location for the vent is AFTER the sensor (as it is on the Fujita intake).

cliffy1

You just hit on the heart of this problem. It is part of the visual inspection. I've never known an inspector to actually fail one for it, but that is the rule.

I'll have to check the location of the valve cover intake. The car isn't here any more, but I'll have a chance to check it soon.

I know these seem like trival issues. These trivial issues got a lot of crap stirred up last night here at the dealership. It wasn't pretty.

stew32

Not sure if this is what you're talking about... There ARE cheap intakes that DO NOT have a hose to vent the valve cover to the intake (I.E. no crankcase ventilation). It would probably have an old school mini filter installed on the valve cover instead. Do a search on eBay, sort by lowest price, and you should see some on the first or second page. If that's what this car had and it's part of the emissions inspection, I'd think it'd fail since it will be venting the cylinder blow by into the air.

DiStUrBeD_AzN

So will there ever be an intake for the 06 xB? It seems a bit late now. T_T

burstaneurysm

^^Until the addition of a charcoal filter sees it's way into aftermarket intakes, I wouldn't hold my breath.

streetlethalxb

I have an aftermarket CAI and all lines were reused for the EVAP emissions that you are refering to. The evap purge control valve has an inlet from the tank and outlet to the throttle body,, not to the CAI. It might be relocated, but if it were truly missing any part of this system it would trigger the code for the evap purge control selenoid, low input. Or if the evap purge selenoid was there and the lines missing then you would get a evap system large leak DTC and the car would die, scince the ECM figures its flow into the injector duration calculations and timing adjustments made by the ECM. I can't imagine why any of this would have been disconnected, it doesn't even figure in to the installation. Now if you are talking about the PCV hose, then that can be removed, and a breather element installed on the PCV valve directly, and a cap over the inlet port on the CAI. This is not an emissions legal setup, because the EPA wants you to burn the gasses generated in the crankcase. However this is a thing that must be done by the owner, and again by plugging the hole in the intake designed for it. The intake itself does allow use for all these systems and is legal to the EPA. CARB has different regulations and has approved some and not others, but thats just CARB, and they suck! However the intakes are legal for street use in 49 other states (sometimes 50) and allow for all of the factory emissions related systems to be used in there original forms. I have never seen an intake generic or name brand without this stuff on them.
The tech failing the car for not venting the gasses through the charcoal canister is dead wrong, that intake does nothing but hold the assembly controlling that. The secondary filter in the box is not the charcoal filter, the charcoal canister is located under the vehicle before the line that even goes into the engine compartment it has to be filtered first before it goes anywhere. Tell the tech to lift the vehicle and explain that. from there it goes to the purge control selenoid ( attached to the air intake assembly and straight to the throttle body to get burned. Im' a dealer tech for 11 years, hes wrong.
The "charcoal filter" is not a paper type filter, it is called the charcoal canister because it is a canister, full of carbon coal used to "filter" the gasses from the tank, the system is always on, not just after the car is off. The system has a fuel tank pressure monitor and as the pressure rises for any reason, during driving or not, the ECU opens the EVAP close valve, wich releases it from the canister, then it controls the amount injested by the motor with the EVAP purge control selenoid (which is the little unit with the two lines on the air intake that you here clicking all the time if you pop the hood at idle, its opening and closing). Then into the throttle body to be cycled. It is a minute amount but the EPA figurd that a few million cars venting very little gas added up to alot of fuel waste and air pollution, so the EVAP system was developed.
The intake is not affecting this system in anyway.

streetlethalxb

That secondary filter in the airbox may be a charcoal filter, but it is not routed into the EVAP emissions system in anyway, and I will be trying to figure out why they added a charcoal filter to the intake air system, I cant imagine what benefit this has on emissions in anyway, or to the engine. The EVAP line, like I said above, goes straight to the throttle body and the PCV line is after the box anyways. But again as I understand California is the only state that requires it, though the company's designing these aftermarket intakes are currently getting them CARB exempt for the models that started using that secondary filter (most likely because it does not affect emissions in any way). The EPA and the rest of the 49 states apparently don't have a problem with or without it. So, in your case i'm sticking to my guns on this.

vintage42

Here is what the 2006 OUTLINE OF NEW FEATURES says:
1NZ-FE Engine
In order to comply with the tailpipe emission regulation LEV, the 1NZ-FE engine is changed as follows:
Intake System
A charcoal filter, which adsorbs the HC that accumulates in the intake system
when the engine is stopped, is added in the air cleaner cap in order to reduce
evaporative emissions.
Service Tip
The charcoal filter, which is maintenance-free, cannot be removed from the air cleaner cap.

streetlethalxb

Then I guess my next question would be, does a CAI have an HC build up, like the stock trap airbox. Seeing as how there is nowhere to accumulate it. Also, why havn't other company's decided this is a problem in 2006. Maybe, its just the setup in these particular models. But again, unless you register the vehicle in california there isn't a problem. Sell the car and pass that information along to the buyer, my bet is they won't care. And it still doesnt have to do with the EVAP control system onboard the vehicle, if it were that important, there would be a "HC" sensor monitoring filter efficiency and there isn't. It almost sounds like a ploy to stop people from doing an intake at all. I want to see how these engineers decide the HC emission build up in the intake assembly after shut down could possibly effect anything, other than a possible rich milisecond on start up. I just don't see the point to this filter. But thanks for the quote guess I was wrong about what the filter is, and that tech may have payed attention in class after all, but c'mon to a fail a safety inspection on a car over this, is rediculous. And its removal is street legal, where these guys are, which I believe was the issue.


I just looked up LEV emissions, its another California only emissions requirment
"California Low Emissions Vehicle (LEV) Standard"
Just like CARB. I know at Hyundai they build vehicles that are federal guideline legal (49 state) and they build california legal cars, look under the hood at the sticker you will see "federal emission" or "california emission". The reason i bring that up is just to show California is the only state these standards apply. So, the tech is still wrong, unless your selling in california.

There is a NLEV which is federal, but the reasoning for filter given above is soley for the california LEV, otherwise it would say NLEV. Which leads me to believe it passes NLEV without it.

blown_xa

do u get it you get it yet Fluffy??