BlueSleeper

again xbgod is exactly right. I think they could sell the manifold setup pretty well though.

xbgod

Here is my take on this whole kit which you put on an automatic?

Like I said exhaust manifold back is kick a$$. However, way over done for an automatic or for that matter a kit designed for a guy thats not using a intercooler or racing. offset your efforts a little a remember the type of people you are dealing with.

By this I mean the turbo is over kill, actually the whole exhaust manifold back is over kill for an auto but that's besides the point.

What would of been more effective in my eyes would of looked like this:

Garrett Gt2252 (internal waste gate) so now subtract that cost from your build. not to mention the return to the down pipe is to close. cost on this turbo 622.00

AEM/FIC with harness for gen1 XB/XA 565.00

Mishimoto intercooler 199.00
Deatsch 380cc injectors 299.00
Tial Q BOV 235.00

This all totals 1920.00

So now subtract the cost of the over priced turbonetics turbo. save 200.00
Also subtract the Tial waste gate cost 285.00
and the extra effort to build that into your manifold about 80.00?

and now your at 1475.00 instead of 1995.00

Now add my parts which were at retail for 1920.00 plus your 1475.00 you get 3,395.00 which with your connections could get this price down to 3,100.00 or mabey even 2,9995.00.

You still have all killer parts: Garrett, Tial, AEM and so fourth and a kit that can go on and be driven by the DD guy.

I belive that you could sell this quite easy at that price and have alot of happy people.

As it stands right now, a person sees 1995.00 and go's wow and then realizes they still have alot to do and no real guidance in how to get there. And then when they are forced to spend 575.00 for an AEM/FIC and then 299.00 for injectors their right a 3k.

go my route you get it all for about the same but you get a intercooler and BOV. which everyone loves the sound of, which is why they buy a turbo to begin with, for the sound of power.

just my thoughts so please don't take this to heart.

XBG

P.S. in my eyes you want your kit to appeal to the masses and also save your self a bunch of phone calls

vettereddie

I actually like that it's a recirc-BOV, anyone working with our MAF-based ECU's should appreciate that. I'd hope people don't buy a turbo kit just to have a longer battleboard and more stickers for their car "Garrett, Tial, AEM, etc." Just lose the hose clamp for something a little cleaner, maybe briaded stainless over and a nut-style clamp or OEM-style spring band, or at least get a hard-mount for the high-pressure side (assuming hose was for test fit only).

The GT2252 uses a T25 flange, mani plate would need to be changed and would limit people wanting to upgrade to a T3/T4 for racing. No I/C means this will also easily fit the xA auto-X guys, who would probably be more interested in race applications. Would this also fit the Yaris to open up the potential market?

Just because it's not what you would build doesn't mean there's not a market for it. I'm glad to see someone's at least stepping up w/ a real turbo kit as an alternative to the HKS, and Greddy which doesn't seem to even be offered anymore.

I would make a sugestion though, to have a "tuner friendly" w/out computer / injectors and a seperate complete kit; all that's missing is the FIC, harness, injectors and a decent map. That should still come under the $3.5k the HKS is asking for retail.

xbgod

My point exactly. Greddy and HkS kits not even really selling. And the whole point of this kit is to put on a DD, hell they even chose a automatic to put it on. Like I said, 98% of this crowd will never race or build the motor anyways. So why not make it a kit that picks up where Greddy and HKS have failed. Or they have already seen the light and realize that most of these people will not spend a quarter of what the car cost for 35 more hp. I like how the kit looks I just think it is overkill for what it's on and who they are trying to appeal to.

Take it for what it's worth.

XBG

vettereddie

Umm.. my GT2252 is on an automatic .

Why am I still posting here, neither you or I are target customers since we're both already running other turbos. Maybe someone in the market for one could chime in and say how they like what's being offered?

xbgod

Yes, that would be helpful to see what the average user thinks.

And nothing wrong with an auto, just not practical. Because most auto people are not going to turbo the car anyways. 99% of turbo builds are done on manuals. And if you are going to target autos than this kit, like I said is over kill. The tranny will never handle the full output of a T3T4 so whats the point.

It's like I previously stated, it's more of a race set-up than a DD so no point in putting this on a auto. And to get the full potential of that turbo set-up you would need to build the bottom end and use it on a manual.

Also orginally they were targeting the average DD, hince the automatic. I think the exhaust manifold back is quite nice but I also think it just got a little out of perspective for the DD. No sense in manufacturing something if it can't meet the average customer needs.

We've both been down this road several times and as a manufacture of racing products my self, I see no sense in overbuilding something if the over all end product can't fit the average customer needs. Or is not complete enough to finish the job. I've heard it to many times from customers, "What do you mean I still need to buy this in order for this other part I bought to work."

But lets see what the average guy or gal would like to buy and put on with the least amount of headaches to get there.

XBG

xbgod

I guess no one is interested in this kit or has an opinon on it? Or are Greddy and HKS right for scaling back?

Sciond

I think your points are dead on about this kit... it is a great effort but could use some enhancements

BlueSleeper

I think we all can agree the manifold setup is awesome. But I think it needs a smaller turbo like k03 or k04 to make it affordable. The Tial is over doing it. Because there are plenty of more affordable BOV's out there. The piping was ok. But it needs alittle more work so it doesn't look tacky.

xbgod

This topic has gotten over 200 hits since the last post and not one reply from anyone. Hard to belive there is no one in the market for a turbo upgrade or is the economy just that bad?

Post up people, if you got the time to read this thread you got the time to drop a line! I'm sure they're curious about peoples thoughts other than the few gus that have posted that are already turbo'd.

XBG

ajcadoo

I am extremely interested in upgrading to turbo. I could have the money in the next couple months but I know nothing about forced induction and know nobody who can install it... I don't think I wanna try this install on my own. I am interested in it though.

xbgod

Well if your looking to do this kit you will want to have a professional install done since you are not comfortable in doing it your self. Also you know your really going to be at about 4,200.00 dollars said and done. depending on how much a shop wants to charge you for the install. I estimated it at 1,000.00 could be more. Also don't forget about the dyno tune.

1995.00 kit
575.00 AEM/FIC with harness
395.00 for injectors
1,000.00 install
300.00 dyno tune

total: 4,265.00

XBG

ajcadoo

Wow, yeah i guess it does make sense for the install to be about $1000. Thats a lot of money to put into this box. I might go turbo in 20 years when the next xB1 gen from Toyota comes out (hoping there will be one).

xbgod

I broke it all down for you, for good reason. You are a prime example of the typical customer looking to do something new. And thats great! My point was to show you that as nice as 1995.00 price tag looks, it's far from making the system work.

And then the whole experience of what you wanted to do turns into a financial experience you'll never forget.

XBG

"This is not to say you wouldn't call and ask questions before you spend your money. But alot of people today are internet shopers and just point and click. And not all high performance racing parts are returnable.

ajcadoo

Yeah good point. I have noticed your posts throughout the thread ranting about the lack of this and that and too low of a price. even $2000 is a lot for a car I purchased for 8 grand. Its slow, but going fast for 4265 is quite a bit. the time will come eventually when i get into the forced induction market.

05sciko

i love the idea of a ready to run kit that is priced right but i do agree with xbg that the t3/t4 is way overkill for a dd. i have an auto and want more pep and that bad ___ bov sound that i had on my civic but im not gonna spend 4k to do it. the idea of having a rtr and tuner kit sounds aweome but i think the rtr would have to have the smaller snail with internal wastegate. i really want a turbo setup that i dont have to think about. maybe xbgod should start making turbo kits rtr?????

ogerdgonz

Any more information about the installed kits?

sp2

Hey bump for Rob, all the guys at worldracing and descendants awesome products.

Once my gfs car is paid off and got lil spare cash ill pick this up.

^_^

Show the love peeps...

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

Fast.
Cheap.
Reliable.

Pick the two that are important to you, and proceed accordingly.

I think it's great that Descendant is making a kit for the xb1's, their xb2 kits are flawless...but yes, sadly, turbocharging a car that isn't turbo from the factory isn't cheap.We can either accept the fact that speed is expensive, or just drive slowly (its what I do) :D.

TheTransporter

Any updates?