k, so i'm looking for the fastest spool time possible. this is NOT for racing at all, it's for other purposes.

i've been told that a GT22 goes full spool at about 1,800rpm on our 1.5L. now what spool rate would i be seeing if the GT22 was to be on a 1.8L or 2.0L? about 1,500rpm right? just curious is all.

 

you can sit here and shoot out numbers until your blue in the face, but realisticlly it isnt going to meen anything until you try.

To sit here and say a specific turbo will spool at a given rpm simply because our cars have a 1.5 is nonsense.

I suppose you can use it as a rough...and i meen ROUGH estimate, but there are soooooo many more factors that play in spool up time.

exhaust diameter, manifold style, intake placement, charge pipe diameter...hell even egt can play a roll in spool time...

Turbos arent as cut and dry as a lot of people make them out to be, and realisticly im not going to sit here and confirm your idea just to find out when you slap the turbo on a 2zzfe swap that it doesent spool until 3k! (this is completely hypothetical by the way)

For instance, on 2" charge pipe, w/ 2.5" exhaust (from the downpipe back), on my greddy log manifold, my little 14g non ball bearing turbo starts spinning at roughly 2-24k, making full boost by 36-4.

...on paper you probably would have gueesed spool time to be around 3k. ya follow?

Its cool to have a good rough idea, but realisticly you wont know until you try, and if you dont get the desired results imidiatley, there are ways around it

best of luck.

 

well ofcorse i wasn't really looking for exacts here or anything. Todd of Turbo Toyotas was telling me that a GT22 on the 1NZFE *given it's got a 2.5" exhaust* used on thier current xB kit *swapping out the GT2554 for the GT22* that it goes full spool at 1,800rpm. i'm just guessing in relation to that on the 1ZZFE that it would come in around 1,500 maybe on a 3" exhaust.

it's only guesses ofcourse, i don't know much behind the sience of turbines so...

 

well thats what i dont understand...

your asking us to guess?

All I am saying is that your not going to get any acurate info by just sitting here and guessing; will this engine w/ this exhaust at this rpm make full moost?

Its not even a matter of exacts....its a straight up guessing game? So i dont know what your trying to accomplish.

If you wanted my best guess...
than i think the 1zzfe would most likely spool around the same 1800 marker and not as low as you would expect...but i could be wrong.

 

a guess is a guess. thats how you start out with things. even doing all the right math would still give you an answer, but it would still be a guess in reality being that once again, theres other things in the real world that come in to play that effect the outcome of what you got on paper. i would expect nothing more then a guess and whether that guess is dead on or far off i wouldn't expect it to be right either. all i was looking for was a guess out of experience, not out of longegated math.

 

Aright, now this is where you got me confused.....when you say full spool, what do you mean? Because if you think that your gonna be at full spooled boost(aka set wastegate boost level) at 1800 rpm's than you were mistaken by what todd said, thats when it could start to spool. If we had to guess on a Gt22 you will start to spool at 1800-2000rpms...on my xB with a log style mani and a T20bb with 2.5" exhaust it would start to spool at about 2300 RPMs but from what I could recall it would be at full boost by about 3400 RPMs

 

Todd told me full boost by 1,800rpm.

his exact words from my email:

"I understand completely. We can go down to a GT22 and you'll have full
boost by 1800rpms. You will just have to run a few more psi "

he was refuring to taking out the GT25 on the original xB kit and using the GT22 inplace of that.

 

I will give Todd a call later because i have a few questions for him myself, but that DEF doesent seem right. I have never heard of a turbo making full boost that quickly (aspecially if he is suggesting you raise the psi???)

Anyways, im not bashing your question, just trying to figure out what you are attempting to get out of it thats all.

I redid my charge pipes, fixed a vacum leak, and altered my intake, and now my turbo is making boost at 25% throttle by 1800-2000rpm on the money, but its not full boost until 2800-3100 (depending on gear), with an occasional spike around 5k.

I will try to get you some pics of my setup, and mayb even a vid for anyone who imidiatley assumes im making it up

 

what kit are you running if you don't mind me asking?

my settup is for daily intown and uphill climbing when i have a good load of extra weight. i'm a person of acceleration, but at the sametime, i'll be halling some extra weight from time to time. so far, i'm getting ready for a motor swap *1ZZFE* to help a bit, plus some custom pistons and bore to bring total size from1.8L to 1.93L to increase torque ratings a bit. the whole engine from top to buttom is being built up. the only thing i need now is an insanely fast spooling turbo for that that engine. i've looked into the GT28 but it takes too long to spool when everyone else says it's quick. the GT25 apparently dosn't spool as quick at the GT28 does on this block so i figured if the GT22 comes in as quickly as Todd claims then that would be my best bet.

 

heres my setup:

-JDM Greddy bB manifold, downpipe, 14g charger, intercooler, oil pan, airinx maf adapter and filter

-tC 370cc injectors (i believe blownxA found them to be at about 76% duty cycle at 9lbs of boost)

-apex'i neo for maf tuning

-stock plugs/ coil packs

-2" charge pipes in/ out

-2.5" exhaust from downpipe back, removed cat, racing resonator, modified trd muffler, rear 02 simulator

-turbonetics boost controller (9psi daily)

...and an ___ load of other stuff that doesent really pertain to what we are discussing. I am leaving for florida today but i will try and get some pics up!

 

Ok just to clarify a few things:

The GT22 on the stock motor using the Turbotoyotas kit makes full boost by 1800rpms(the boost was set at 5psi, should have clarified that when I told Winter what it would do) we did a test, it comes on really quick sooner than we though it would.

Now where I told him to raise the psi was the fact that he wants faster spool than the GT2554R that comes standard in the kit but wants the same power that it makes out of the GT22. = having to raise the boost level on the GT22 to get the same power as the GT2254R.

I know we are only talking mm here but the GT22 is 1.8mm smaller on the inducer and 2.3mm smaller on the exducer side of the compressor wheel and 2.7mm smaller on the turbine wheel size. It makes a HUGE difference.

Have fun

Regards-

Todd

 

thanks for clearifieing Todd, it's all i really needed!

 

Have you ever thought about putting on a ceramic turbo? They spool much faster than most standard turbos of the same size. That is what I am doing. I have most of the kit and am waiting for the manifold.

 

i think i may end up using a GT2259 garrett turbo. i tink Todd was talkign about the GT2252 which is much smaller then the GT2554R while the GT2259 is in the middle abouts.

it's not that i need it to spool FAST it's the need for it to come in extremely early and be able to spool up quickly.

also, last i heard, don't ceramics have durability issues?
mine's not really for speed, it's for low end power...

 

ceramics only have issues if the boost is set above 12psi. As the Xb has a high compression ratio and anything over 10 psi is not realistic the ceramic is a good choice.

However, if you have plans to change the pistons and boost at higher levels then it is not a good choice. The entire cartridge on these turbos are ceramic including the shaft, which makes the rotating assembly much lighter hence easier to spool , and the turbine rpm drops much less during shifts.

 

my purposes are for use on a 1ZZFE block, not the 1NZFE. i wouldbe doing the swap plus low end turboing at the same time and in order to have decent power from the small turbo, i would be throwing nearly 15-18psi so using ceramic is out of the question for me.

 

Im trying to figure out what ur purpose is.... are you going to be racing??? You seem to be over-analysing imo, i run a to35 size greddy turbine and the spool up is plenty fast. In fact the power band is just about perfect for the 1.5. It puts out more torque than any supercharger, and if u compare the dyno graph next to my buddies Blitz charger dyno graph.... u would swear he's the turbo'd one because of the power curve. It's nice to have a different set-up, but what advantage are u going for??

 

I was under the impression that you were using the stock xb engine and not a 1ZZFE engine. However, before you go ahead and boost let me give you a heads up. The 1ZZFE
was developed for max na performance and fuel economy, as such the Toyota designers opted to use low piston ring tension force which would let the engine rev quickly and save a considerable amount of gas.

Here in Japan when they turbo 1ZZFE engines they replace the piston rings. The rings force against the cylinder war is adequate for na or low boost levels but at levels above 10 psi the blowby increases radically as the piston rings start to give way under the additional pressure. So get yourself a good set of aftermarket rings.

 

the 1ZZ is actualy being completely rebuilt. new pistons, new sleeves, new rods, bearings, rings, valves, springs, retainers, cams, flywheel and so on.

the boost levels though don't mean much. having 10psi boost from the normal GT28 and GT30 turbos that are used is completely diffrent from 10psi used from a GT2259. i'm sure you know this, 10psi from the normal GT28 and GT30 is about the same as about 15-18psi from the GT2259, just a faster spool rate but i don't have th ability to have 300-350+ hp and torque like what would normaly be seen from that block with it being built, i would see a max of about 250-260whp and torque.

heres a question for you though... has anyone overthere done a sequantial turbo settup on the 1ZZ?

 

I have seen one application in which two identical turbos were used. The second turbo would be engaged at higher rpms via an electronic valve/boost controller that opened a valve letting the exhaust flow to the second turbo. After which the turbos would run in parallel