My apologies for my part were already stated to folks like popalock in an earlier post. Like I said before though, nobody is forcing anyone to read these posts. You can't have a Projector headlights; general discussion thread of much value with a bunch of little 2-line posts of "Kewl! Way 2 go dude" comments. Note that details and facts mentioned in the posts were submitted to scrutiny and either refuted, supported, or clarified by responses. I for one have benefited from the replies in clarifying my understanding. Quick and superficial comments are unlikely to be capable of being educational. It is hard to be concise when it is details that make the difference and clarification of details cannot be accomplished with a short blurb; sorry.

The biggest problem with this subject is ignorance and misinformation. Upgrading xB (or any car) headlights is not as simple as just buying any aftermarket product that fits or looks cool. Headlights are not just cosmetic mods and, if not done with a certain level of informed caution, could prove to affect the safety of the drivers of both the modified car and those exposed to such a car. Just last Friday I was exposed to a Suzuki Aerio Xs in parallel traffic equipped with 10000K (purple) HID's. The glare was enormous as the cut-off was virtually non-existent (probably due to a complete lack of shielding). While side-by-side in the next lane, there was very little beam-pattern visible on the roadway. The modification to this Aerio's headlights might have been stunning for car-show purposes but at a cost to safety and efficiency.

Like the driver of the Aerio, too many people are uninformed enough to think that you could just toss any kind of light into any kind of headlamp and slap it on a car and if it looks kewl, its just a matter of personal taste.


I for one think it is possible to safely modify the xB OEM headlights to HID in a way that positively improves the lighting for the xB driver without creating an additional glare problem for other drivers. However, as a modification, while potentially unenforceable by local law, only an OEM system originally specifically designed for HID will be 100% legal. Without a bona-fide way to fully test it and certify it as safe & effective, any modification (like my own) of a OEM halogen capsule would be subject to a lot of potluck/trial&error and could easily prove to be undesirable even if legally unenforceable on a local level .

Projectors seem to offer the most adaptable solution for a complete ready-made HID system. It would be much more difficult to adapt an existing capsule ("reflector") unit made for HID from another make/model of car since the physical dimensions/mounting would be extremely difficult to adapt to the xB chassis without other more extensive body modifications. An OEM HID projector, as their proponents in this thread have suggested, may be the most direct already-tested and adaptable option for those who are disatisfied with the stock system. However, it was also noted that there are potentially as many problems with relamping OEM projectors designed for halogen bulbs with HID tubes as there might be with relamping halogen capsules with HID. This was a significant point exposed during this discussion and makes a point against using aftermarket projectors that physically fit the xB but were not designed for HID. Only the transfer of OEM HID projectors offers a certified and unquestionably legal currently available HID mod. for the xB unless an HID-certified capsule (reflector) becomes available.



I still have some serious reservations and perhaps some misconceptions about projectors as the ultimate lighting solution. I could use some clarification, with the patient indulgence of this forum, on a few points and welcome the opportunity to hear from the proponents of projectors to this end. I make the assumption that there may also be others who are reading these posts who have a genuine interest who may have had the same questions or made the same assumptions and might benefit from the responses.

An open exchange of information on this forum is highly useful to dispell misinformation and increase understanding. I am as much seeking details on the projector systems as posting my own comments/observations/experiences.

My thanks go out to those those like HIDretro who have taken time to help.

For those who find the length/detail of the posts annoying, I will personally try to break them up a little more instead of putting everything into a single post. To those who still have an issue with the content of these posts, I would respectfully suggest that this is a technical forum and the posts are on-topic. If you were looking for some light banter, this might not be the thread for you. Just don't bother to read these posts. If you aren't interested, why bother reading/following this particular thread?

 

That's just it....your not forcing but you might as well be. I hate reading but I want to find out everything there is to know about HID and how it works. I just with you could sum it up every once and awhile. I'll quit complaining though.....

 

For those who are interested, I got a K-color chart from the vendor I bought my HID kits from

For some reason, this forum keeps turning the HTML off (even though I elected HTML ON in my profile) so here is a link to view the chart:

http://groups.msn.com/2005ToyotaTorn...oto&PhotoID=82

I suspect these colors are fairly accurate as the 8000K color looks more like the actual color of the HID in my stock xB capsules than teal/turquoise color that my camera interpreted in the lastest photos.

In fact, I came across the earlier 8000K HID pictures on MSN which the camera seems to have more correctly colored than the latest ones. (I don't understand quite why. I probably need lessons in using my digital camera too! )

http://photos.msn.com/Slideshow/View...24%26index%3d2


The color of my lights is much more white with a slight shade of UV-looking blue. After comparing the color of the 6000K, I am curious how the DOT could disqualify 6-8000K as being "white". The 4100-4300K color I have seen on OEM HID-equipped cars has a distinctive bluish-white sheen when looking directly toward the car but has a yellow-white cast on the road. The halogen 2800-3200K bulbs look comparatively strongly "orange" on the road.

A quickie question to HIDretro as you can probably answer this off-hand without having to do extensive research:

What is the current degree Kelvin color-limit held by the U.S. DOT?

 

Two more questions for the projector HID experts:

1)Do you think that the small lense of the projector system presents more of a potential glare/scatter problem due to road-filming than the physically larger lense area capsule headlights? I was made aware last night after driving on salted/sanded wet roads how quickly my windshield and headlights were filmed-over. Unless the car has a headlight washer, it would not be possible to avoid accumulations of road spray under these circumstances especially. Given the acknowledgement of how adversely dirt/film affects any headlight beam, wouldn't the more concentrated light source of the projector make it even more suceptible to this effect (even if the actual convex projector lense is directly behind a clear cover)?



2)The simplified diagram kindly supplied by HIDretro compares how the lamp output is dispersed by projector and the reflector. Although I believe (with the exception of the cut-off shielding) the projector illustration is more or less technically complete, I believe upon closer examination that the "reflector" diagram more acurately exemplifies a simple spotlight. It depicts a uniform concave reflector surface and a clear lense. If we were to diagram the contoured surface of our xB capsule's reflector, we would see numerous overlapping compound angles of reflection to direct the light significantly more diversely than the simple spotlight diagram would suggest.
As illustrated, the assertion that reflectors produce a narrower beam better suited to distance (HI-beam) than close-up (LOW-beam) vision would be irrefutable but it does not take into account that, unlike projectors, capsule headlights integrate numerous modifiers to produce multiple angles. Headlights would not operate this simply within the angles of the beam boundary as shown and produce a unidirectional beam.

The projector produces essentially a unidirectional beam of light whereas the multiple angles in a capsule headlight produce multidirectional illumination. The division of the light source requires the mathematical computation of complex compound photometric angles, which might be why is seems so easy to "get it wrong" and not get the best "even" pattern of illumination. The asset of the projector, but simultaneously I feel one of its drawbacks, is the unidirectional nature of the beam. It gives evidence of an evenly-strong beam of light with a clearly defined cut-off. Photos posted here support this.

Compare the conical beam output of the projector with the beam pattern actually produced by the complex compound reflective angles of a fluted lense or contoured reflector in a capsule headlight design, These multiple angles create facets that act like a collection of smaller beams of varying intensity depending on the angle and the amount of overlap with other beams. The area that the light is directed into can be created into a particular pattern by controlling the location of these light-angle controlling features (reflector contours/lense fluting), so that the beams depth, height, width, and cut-off are controllable by design. Deficiencies in light pattern could be adjusted to a great degree by correctly adjusting these angles in the design of the capsule lamp unit.

I have held the belief that projectors have a technically-simple unmodified beam. The light source bounces off the reflector and, except where blocked by the cut-off shielding, proceeds at extreme angles directly through the convex lense. Besides uniformly controlling the angle of dispersion by the shape of the lense and blocking unwanted output, the beam is otherwise a simple spotlight. The light is essentially a big circle with the top and bottom trimmed off horizontally. If you removed the slide holder/shield from a photo-projector, the true nature of the beam would be a simple round spot. The square-black frame between the lamp/reflector and convex lense block light around the sides to create a square area of illumination similar to the shielding in a projector headlamp. On the household version, moving the lense closer or further away from the lamp/reflector creates "focus" and widens/narrows the light beam as it changes the angle of the light input from the reflector to the lense.
My impression is that the automotive reflector system is also inclined to output a prefocused round-pattern conical beam. The beam pattern represents the "center slice" (strip) of middle 1/3 of the original circle created by the shielding.

Since the only factors that can be modified in design of the projector are the lense angle/position relative to the lamp/reflector and the amount of light blockage, the potential modifications to the beam are limited. Owing to the extreme angles produced inside projector designs, they do not seem given to use of multi-facteted reflectors or fluting of the projector lense.

Given these finite physical limits, doesn't the projector provide a very finite beam with a less desirably-patterned illumination than might be possible with a properly designed compound-angle reflector/lense system? It was my contention that projectors seem capable of a higher glare factor due to what I consider a somewhat unregulated lateral beam intensity. In other words, the beam is too equally bright to the sides as it is in the middle making it more likely to get a blast of full-intensity HID light at angles to the source (oncoming lanes). The projector photos posted appear to affirm this supposition. Capsules attempt with compound beam angles to create a pattern that is purposely less intense on the driver's side albeit perhaps not perfectly either.

To add additional shielding on the opposing side (internally) to block the beam with into the driver's lane would be inclined to produce another sharp cut-off which I assume would too dramatically limit lateral illumination. The other option would require altering lense radius or position to more narrowly focus the beam, but this would unfairly infringe on the desirable ditch-side lighting away from traffic.


What are your thoughts? Is it possible for a beam to be too uniform in intensity (especially at the HID's luminosity) and create the glare issue I have encountered?

 

http://www.autolamps-online.com/gasdischarge/index.htm

That is a much more accurate representation. The chart your provider gave you is quite deceiving.

6000+ K does not qualify due to the higher blue spectral content on the ground. The blue cast at the source (headlamp) is a by product of the optics/light source; something a lot of people don't seem to understand.


5000K and 5400K

The 5000K is the max “legal” color being offer for oem HID headlamps and even then only as an oem replacement bulb and does not actually come stock on the vehicle.

5400K is in the first gen HID systems which are being phased out in favor of the current (2nd) generation and also is in a series of OEM replacement HID headlamps (for Ford trucks) using the legal high color bulbs as well as in an auxiliary lamp unit(for any vehicle); both from Osram/Sylvania.

This question has something to do with the 2nd question as well, but we’ll cover that part below. The short answer is no since we are speaking of the exit aperture being the headlamps lens. The reflector optics is as susceptible as the projector optics to causing glare in the mentioned circumstance.

Both of those diagrams are simple/general examples of both, the projector and reflector optics used inside headlamps are much more complex then what is illustrated. Both projector and reflector optics have peaks and valleys in their output rays. The assumption made above is that the projector optics is not as complex as the reflector optics; which is not the case.

It’s actually much more complicated then that and I’ll try to explain it without getting into the nitty gritty of it…..

In the projector optics, the projector’s internal reflector works much like the reflector of the reflector headlamp. It captures and directs light in a pre-calculated pattern (upside down and inverse) which is sent to the projectors lens and distributed onto the road. Once outside of the lens, the light ray is radiated into the pre-calculated pattern onto the road.

In the reflector optics, the reflector captures and directs light to the pre-calculated pattern (upside down and inverse) and directs it onto the road.

With the projector optics, the light beam is radiated out from the headlamp as a “correct” beam onto the road surface. In the reflector optics, the light beam is radiated out from the headlamp as an inverted beam that is only corrected after it passes its invert point (10-12 inches from the headlamp.

Here is a simple illustration:


If you have some free time, you can actually view what I’m referring to with your own xB headlamps. With the lights on, take a brown cardboard ( or box ) and hold it to the headlamp (1-3 inches from the headlamp lens) now gradually move the cardboard away from the headlamp, you will see when the beam starts to invert into it’s corrected form.

The reflector optics could possibly be designed to be as wide or as evenly lit as the projector optics but there are too many variables and uncertainty since the optics does not have as much control as the projector optics. In that respect, the projector is far superior and has much more potential. How that potential is used is up to the individual optics manufacturer and regulation for the intended region it will be used in.

 

Thank You HIDretro for your informative replies.

I recall that you commented in an earlier reply that the first generation HID were 5200-5400 but I wondered whether the manufacturers had broken specific ground with the DOT for this specific color range or if there was an independent spec. that the manufacturers complied within.


You mentioned that the color range chart was deceptive. I have compared the color of my actual 8000K HID tube and the 8000K tube in the chart and it is comparable. The link you posted shows HID's as seen inside/behind a projector lense and shows very muted colors. Installed in a capsule, the HID tube is actually more highly visible from a side-view and there is more color-cast inside the reflector/lense chamber so the color is much more noticeable. I have seen 10000K HID in reflectors and it is plum purple whereas the autolamps-online link suggests a blue color closer to my 8000K.

If you do OEM retrofits, do I assume correctly that in working with OEM projectors, you only use the DS1 DS2 based OEM bulbs which do not exceed the 5400K color range? (I'm just curious on what basis and which colors do you find to be in error? Do you deal primarily with OEM 4300K DS1 and DS2?)

I was also under the understanding that GE, OSRAM, and Phillips absolutely do not make arc-tubes in 6000K or above and that any claims that higher color tubes were brand-name is fraudulent. Thanks to your link, the spec.sheet provided on the BUY NOW page here shows a 10000K clearly made by GE although marked "NOT for road-use". Your link seems to have exposed at least one commonly held HID myth.

As I understand, the K range is defined by the specific "cocktail" of noble gasses contained inside the arc-tube. As I understand it that gas also has to contain a percentage of metallic/conductive vapor to pass the 20+KV DC current. Household comparatives would be the suspended mercury in flourescent tubes or blue-white security lamps and sodium in the orange security lamps. The high-voltage electric arc would be bluish white in its pure state but alters the color bandwidth based on the surrounding gasses. As I understood from Daniel's replies to the NTHSC, there is/was a Japanese manufacturer that was attempting to duplicate HID in a more typical halogen K-range (below 3800K?) but I assume that even then it would have a bluish cast from the arc-source just as 4100-4300K HID does compared with a 4100K halogen (SilverStar).

Is the nature of the HID arc in any K-range the "byproduct" you were refering to?


Are you saying that the physics of the projector lense/shielding produce a certain amount of prismatic color separation or where you refering to the electric arc in the HID? I assume a 4100K halogen filament would not produce the blue cast whereas a 4100K HID would due to the HV arc?


Understood.

In fact after reading your suggested experiment , I recall that another "test" was to use a translucent sheet so that the light could filter slightly through and do the same thing. These optics are common to most light/lense relationships including the human eye (as a receiver rather than transmitter though).

My point however was not really relative to the comparative points of where the boundary angles of reflected light intersect to correct the optical inversion of the beam. I was primarily interested in how light proceeding from the projector is essentially unidirectionally forward, within the pattern confines allowed by the shielding and within the boundary beam angles established through the intersection. Comparatively, the traditional reflector capsule fragments the light output into multiple smaller beams at different angles even before the intersection point as suggested in the diagram.

If we drew a diagram of the actual reflection/beam angles of the xB capsule, we would have a multitude of different angles as the light reflects off of each of the "steps" and complex contours of the reflector. Represented by arrows, these would form a complete field of criss-crossing lines with light leaving the assembly through the clear lense in a variety of directions and depths. While most would comply within those two basic boundary lines depicted in the diagram, they are not all bound or limited by these two simple angles. This creates a much more complicated and compensated illumination pattern than a basic spotlight diagram would indicate.


The diagram does nicely illustrate how the two compare as to where the reflected light intersects off the boundary angles of the beam to "correct" the inversion caused by their reflectors. The projector does it internally before the light is dispersed outward/forward in a more-or-less unidirectional path whereas the capsule achieve the image correction ahead of the headlight.

I would respectfully suggest however that, while correct, in an attempt to stay simple, it does not account for the fact that reflector/capsule headlights are not generally simple spotlights and incorporate either a multi-angle reflector surface (like the xB) or a multi-faceted redirective lense (or both). This means that for purposes of our comparision, the capsule (reflector) system we are comparing against the projector, actually splits the light output into a group of multidirectional beams before they can overlap or intersect with other opposing-angle beams within the beam-limit boundaries before the entire beam "image" is corrected as to its horizontal and vertical orientation. Even with the image correction outside of the lamp unit, these multidirectional angles continue in a mutidirectional pattern after the horizontal/vertical focus. By contrast, the projector illustration would show all the arrows proceeding outward in a radial "fan" fashion in the same forward direction within the boundary outward beam angles.


Selectively block (or blacken) portions of the xB's convoluted headlight reflector and it is possible to see how different portions of the reflector direct light to various positions ahead of the vehicle. This means that the "hottest" areas in the beam pattern on a capsule are wherever the larger total amounts of these multiple reflected beams intersect or overlap.


I infered that the attention to the differences between image correction points (angle intersection) of internal and external, are drawn to illustrate the greater efficiency of
the projector as the beam is corrected to it's final image while still inside the lamp-unit so that all illumination proceeds forward at a uniform intensity whereas the light proceeding from a capsule unit is still "unfinished" until some distance ahead.


My point was that the projector does not have multiple directions; it is essentially all one single spread-out beam. I suggest it could be illustrated as forward pointing "arrows" radiating in a "fan" pattern withing the shield boundaries. So the beam is nice and uniform and easy to "aim" onto the road as to the height and distance.

It is however this very uniform "fan" pattern created by projector optics that I suggest puts light of equal intensity into incoming traffic as a less than desirable aspect of projector technology. This effect is even more dramatic with the increase in intensity from HID lighting sources.


Thank you for your input.

 

The initial color of the first generation HID was within the legal realm of white light, the same might not be true once the capsule aged as it would approach and exceed the 6000K mark. That may be the reason why manufacturers switched over to the current temperatures; we can only speculate.


The chart that your HID Kit provider provided is a gross misrepresentation of color. They would suggest that a 5800K light HID light source is orange in color while going up 200 degrees would yield a “super white” output. They are either unaware of what their own kit produce, not aware of color temperature, or just blatantly lying. New customers would view that chart and be more likely to get the 8,000, 10,000, or 12,000K kit as it would suggest that it is still white yet has a represented colored hue.

Comparing the chart provided by your HID Kit provider and the one provided by Autolamps, the Autolamps chart is a much better representation of color temperature. If you would like to learn more about their kits or their chart, please contact them directly as I am not affiliated and would not be able to answer questions specific to them.

What you and perhaps a lot of people on this site do not understand is that OEM HID is not full of color when viewed up close. Most people do not care enough to take a closer look and only view as the vehicle is approaching them. If you have the time or the opportunity, you should stop by a local dealer that carry HID equipped vehicle. As stated already, the color that is seen from an approaching OEM HID equipped vehicle is a byproduct caused by the light source and optics. The color up close is unimpressive or “muted” as you so put. An example of this is the lack of OEM color temperature HID Kits (4100K HID Kits). They do not sell well since they do not reproduce the desired “color” that buyers are wanting.

Yes. 4100K D2S and 4100K D2R (for the reflector optics). Since it is OEM HID optics all that is required is the OEM color temperature (4100K) to produce the desired effect.

I am only aware of the 5400K from Osram/Sylvania and the 6000K from Philips. As you might have guessed, I do not keep up with anything above that as it is not worth my time. If you have questions about autolamps’ products, please direct those questions directly to them.

It would depend on which bulbs you were speaking off. In terms of the HID bulbs used in vehicles, some use a mixture of gases and metallic salts to produce their color while others use physical color filters (some HID Kits).

Current generation automotive HID bulbs do not work on DC current (only the first generation did) but instead AC current. The vehicle’s DC current is converted to AC current before being energized to the high current need to ignite the bulb.

The mentioned byproduct was for discharge lamps that produce white light such as OEM HID; where the source light is blue looking at the light source (headlamp) but casts onto the road surface as white light. The same does not relate well to sources that produced colored light (when the source light is as blue as the light on the road surface).

The prismatic effect from the projector is primary the result of the projectors lens. Remove the cutoff shield and the prism affect is there (just in a different area), but remove the lens, and the prism effect disappears. The shield effects how strong the effect is and which colors are represented at the cutoff line.

As already mentioned several time already, the diagrams are simple representations. The actual beam produced by both the projector and reflector are much more complex and involving then that. Your assumption is that the projector optics is nothing more then a regular slide projector but with a cutoff shield is incorrect. As already mentioned already, the beam produced by the projector, although seems very uniform, is full of peaks and valleys. As for your xB example, you are mistaking stray light as part of the primary beam pattern. With your xB headlamps for example, the rays are collected by the pre-calculated reflector facets and sent to their destination. Between then (the reflector facet) and the destination, the light will pass through the inverse point. The projector optics is almost identical though the beam is more controlled with less stray light and the inverse point is much sooner then the reflector optics’ inverse. In both optics, the light ray will go through that inverse point before reaching it’s final destination, that is what the diagram depicts.


In the low beam projector, the inverse is immediately outside the projector’s lenses (1-2 inches from the projector lense), and the low beam reflector, the inverse is 6-8 inches outside the headlamp.

Again, your assumption here is the low beam projector is a “simple” projector when it is anything but.


The projector’s internal reflector directs light in much the same manner as the reflector optics but goes beyond that. The difference is the projector is working with 2 inverse points (3 if you count the projector lens) and a much smaller (but more intense) beam. The curvature of the reflector and projector lens as well as the distance from the reflector to the lens determines the resultant beam pattern. They all have to be designed with the other in mind. And like the reflector optics, there are varying intensities in the ray of lights that make up the final beam, with more light devoted for the top/center.

Here is the beam pattern of a bixenon projector from the Infiniti FX35:

Here it is in “high” or “bi-xenon” mode (which is essentially without the cutoff shield in place):

You can better see the different layers of intensity when it is in high beam mode (the camera reduces overall brightness; look at the garage light to see what I mean)

The garage light is a discharge lamp with a 6400K color temperature. The color is actually more of a blue then the bluish/green that the camera picks up.

Here is the driver side of a stock xB (not color correct):


The reason behind the projector’s ability to disperse its beam more freely then the reflector optics is its control over its beam (via the cutoff shield), so optics manufacturers are more free to produce wider beam patterns with projectors where they can not with reflectors.

Here is a projector that doesn’t take advantage of that potential as the manufacturer chooses a more centric beam pattern (projector beam on top):


Selectively blacking out sections of the projector’s internal reflector would cause the same effect.

No, the point was to show that both the reflector and projector optics have as much of a glare potential when foreign elements are introduced onto the headlamp’s lens (water droplets/salt/ice/dirt/debris/etc). As far as beam image correction, the projector does have a head start and the uniform illumination in the beam pattern is more the result of the projector’s internal reflector’s curvature.


You are forgetting that the reflector optics’ primary beam pattern (not including stray light) is also radiating in a “fan” fashion from its inversion point; it is just not as organized as the projectors’ dispersion.

More light can be used to the sides because of the projector’s beam control. The cutoff line is there for a purpose. That is the primary reason why reflector optics will not have much light devoted to the sides; even in HID reflector optics. Assuming the headlamps are aimed properly and the car’s suspension is not super stiff, the beam of the projector should not reach high enough to be in your eyes (beam being the light below the cutoff line). The same thing is true for reflector optics. If the headlamps are aimed properly and the car’s suspension is not super stiff, the main beam (below the fuzzy cutoff) should not reach your eyes.


Looks can be deceiving unless you fully understand the optics. Take the E55 beam above, that manufacturer chose to concentrate the beam much like a reflector (strong center). If you have the means or the initiative, I would suggest purchasing projector optics to experiment with.

 

Great Stuff!

Thanks for the added info and the pictures. I appreciate your taking the time to share this.

I understand what you mean about the overly high green balance in your photos. I ran into the same problem with mine (Olympus C4000Z digital) too. The camera tends to set the speed and aperature based on the intense light and it mutes and overcolors everything on the close-ups.

I was actually calling the beam configuration of the projector headlamp "simple" compared to the reflector headlamp capsule. (Your response in reference the details of the projector beam pattern did address that issue.) I didn't intend a comparative count of the number of working parts to suggest a slight on behalf of the projector.

Agreed on the 5800K color. I don't see how 5800K could look orange unless it's a typo and they meant 2800K? (I know that OE halogens look orange compared to mine at night.) My HID tubes are clear glass not tinted and in the xB capsule the color is closer to the 8000K depicted in the JDM than the illustration at www.autolamps. JDM only sells 6000K and 8000K HID with clear (untinted) glass tubes so I don't know where they got the other colors for this chart. Since they only sell 6000K and 8000K, I don't think I could accuse them of trying to decieve people into buying colors they don't sell. Conversely, I would think it would be equally unfair to argue that autolamp deliberately muted the color to get people to think that illegal colors might look less noticeable (and more legal) than they do. I have seen a 10000K HID from another vendor mounted in a capsule headlight and it did look plum purple whereas the GE ones being sold for OFF-road use at autolamp are being made to look like my untinted 8000K. I suspect getting an accurate photo of an HID might be difficult without some photo-editing as the intense light tends to be hard for the cameras to interpret. In the end, there is a real problem with vendors deliberately misrepresenting products to sell them. Whether that is the case here or not, it is finally up to us to ask questions and do the research to gain sufficient understanding of what we are buying.

My stated reason for posting the color chart was because my Olympus had some of the same issues you had in altering colors in the presence of intense HID light. The last batch of pix with the new grille made the headlights look turquoise and I wanted to show that it was actually more intense white-blue. This was in response to a comment from Soon2bxB about the color being "ridiculous" otherwise I agree that IF there were any question about the accuracy of the colors, it would be best answered by contacting the vendors.


Thanks again for taking the time to respond to these posts. For now I am pretty much done with the headlights on my xB but I may take your suggestion to buy a projector/set from a salvor at some time in the future to play around with. In the meantime, I will save the info from the posts in a file.

 

All I want to know is which gives best lighting without glaring oncoming traffic?
A. Stock oem light housings with hid?
B. Ebay Projector lighting with hid? ( In chrome )
C. Ebay Projector lighting with hid? ( In black)

All will be used with temps in the 4k range.

 

In my experience........(I've bought the dual projector from ebay) I would just keep the stock light and get the HID kit.
The Dual Projector is really poor quality. I'll elaborate if you really want me to. I'm just trying to help you out by learning from my mistakes.....

 

ya know what i have the dual halo on my xb and i can see just fine.still looking for sum brighter bulbs so that way when i role up on sum1 in a bmw i can flash right back at em.and to whoever is gettin butt hurt over their sappy,overrated lights from an audi,they are sum of the ugliest things i had ever seen on a scion.But kudos for the mod.