anyone added a 2nd anti sway bar to the front
06-27-2004, 04:10 PM
#1
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anyone added a 2nd anti sway bar to the front
my hot lava has been lowered in eibach springs and has the hotkis anti sway bars, but still dosen't corner as flat as it needs to. We did some mesuring and figured out the dementions of a 2nd front bar and passed it on the a couple of anit swy bar mfg's but are swill waiting to hear back. just wondering if anyone else has done it? 
06-27-2004, 04:17 PM
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You dont want to do that.....it will hurt your suspension over all....what you want is more oversteer....replace the Hotchkis front sway bar with the stock sway bar and that will take care of your problem
06-27-2004, 04:23 PM
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Also something that will help you out is to use a front lower tie brace....which JIC and CUSCO both sell...personally I would use one of these instead of upgrading the front sway bar.....Progress will have a Rear only sway bar out in 4 weeks
06-28-2004, 07:02 PM
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More oversteer does not make the car fast, it makes it safer for people that don't know how to drive because when they corner fast the front starts to plow and they can slow down and make it turn.
A second front bar is probably not the answer, more is not always better. If you REALLY know suspension and feel the need for more front bar have a larger dia. bar built. Balance is what you are after. Keeping the body flat is only part of the equation not the end goal.
Tires have more to do with cornering power than any other element. Try some Falken Aziens, they are supposed to be the grippiest street tire out there. They won't last long on the street but real performance cost's $$$, if you are not willing to spend the $$ to replace grippy tires (tires are consumeables, just like brake pads) you will have to settle for less perfromance.
ken
ken
A second front bar is probably not the answer, more is not always better. If you REALLY know suspension and feel the need for more front bar have a larger dia. bar built. Balance is what you are after. Keeping the body flat is only part of the equation not the end goal.
Tires have more to do with cornering power than any other element. Try some Falken Aziens, they are supposed to be the grippiest street tire out there. They won't last long on the street but real performance cost's $$$, if you are not willing to spend the $$ to replace grippy tires (tires are consumeables, just like brake pads) you will have to settle for less perfromance.
ken
ken
06-28-2004, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kdanie
More oversteer does not make the car fast, it makes it safer for people that don't know how to drive because when they corner fast the front starts to plow and they can slow down and make it turn.
A second front bar is probably not the answer, more is not always better. If you REALLY know suspension and feel the need for more front bar have a larger dia. bar built. Balance is what you are after. Keeping the body flat is only part of the equation not the end goal.
Tires have more to do with cornering power than any other element. Try some Falken Aziens, they are supposed to be the grippiest street tire out there. They won't last long on the street but real performance cost's $$$, if you are not willing to spend the $$ to replace grippy tires (tires are consumeables, just like brake pads) you will have to settle for less perfromance.
ken
ken
A second front bar is probably not the answer, more is not always better. If you REALLY know suspension and feel the need for more front bar have a larger dia. bar built. Balance is what you are after. Keeping the body flat is only part of the equation not the end goal.
Tires have more to do with cornering power than any other element. Try some Falken Aziens, they are supposed to be the grippiest street tire out there. They won't last long on the street but real performance cost's $$$, if you are not willing to spend the $$ to replace grippy tires (tires are consumeables, just like brake pads) you will have to settle for less perfromance.
ken
ken
I agree and disagree with you...in the case of the xa and xb were the understeer is alittle on the extreme side I think giving it more oversteer will benefit even the beginner type driver....in my statements above I am not giving extreme handling advise....if I did I would say take that damn front bar off hahahaa....but I am not...and your taking my words out of context like I said just putting on a upgraded rear bar and putting a front lower tie brace on will help in terms of handling characteristics...we have had this conversation one to many times
06-28-2004, 11:11 PM
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dinkjs,
I must appologize, I engaged my typing fingers before engaging my brain... I read your post incorrectly. You are correct, adding some oversteer WILL help cornering in these cars. They are designed to UNDERSTEER by the factory. Understeer is safe, Oversteer is fun...
I have never tried to corner a xB near the limit, I don't think I would like that experience much.
I do drive my xA near the limit often and have experienced oversteer once at about 70mph in a 35mph down hill, off camber corner... My mistake, I should have braked slightly harder before corner entry so I could begin accelerating sooner but it WAS quite a rush having the back end start to step out. Haven't experience that sensation since the muscle car days... (legal disclaimer: Don't try this at home, like the auto ads on TV-Closed Course/Professional Driver, yeah... I wish).
My xA is usually very neutal near the limit unless I blow the "line". Stock sway bars with urethane end link bushings in front, Eibach springs, factory struts/shocks, lower subframe brace, 17x7 wheels with sticky tires. Very grippy, lots of fun, no need for aftermarket sway bars.
Again, appologies,
ken
I must appologize, I engaged my typing fingers before engaging my brain... I read your post incorrectly. You are correct, adding some oversteer WILL help cornering in these cars. They are designed to UNDERSTEER by the factory. Understeer is safe, Oversteer is fun...
I have never tried to corner a xB near the limit, I don't think I would like that experience much.
I do drive my xA near the limit often and have experienced oversteer once at about 70mph in a 35mph down hill, off camber corner... My mistake, I should have braked slightly harder before corner entry so I could begin accelerating sooner but it WAS quite a rush having the back end start to step out. Haven't experience that sensation since the muscle car days... (legal disclaimer: Don't try this at home, like the auto ads on TV-Closed Course/Professional Driver, yeah... I wish).
My xA is usually very neutal near the limit unless I blow the "line". Stock sway bars with urethane end link bushings in front, Eibach springs, factory struts/shocks, lower subframe brace, 17x7 wheels with sticky tires. Very grippy, lots of fun, no need for aftermarket sway bars.
Again, appologies,
ken
06-28-2004, 11:38 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by kdanie
dinkjs,
I must appologize, I engaged my typing fingers before engaging my brain... I read your post incorrectly. You are correct, adding some oversteer WILL help cornering in these cars. They are designed to UNDERSTEER by the factory. Understeer is safe, Oversteer is fun...
I have never tried to corner a xB near the limit, I don't think I would like that experience much.
I do drive my xA near the limit often and have experienced oversteer once at about 70mph in a 35mph down hill, off camber corner... My mistake, I should have braked slightly harder before corner entry so I could begin accelerating sooner but it WAS quite a rush having the back end start to step out. Haven't experience that sensation since the muscle car days... (legal disclaimer: Don't try this at home, like the auto ads on TV-Closed Course/Professional Driver, yeah... I wish).
My xA is usually very neutal near the limit unless I blow the "line". Stock sway bars with urethane end link bushings in front, Eibach springs, factory struts/shocks, lower subframe brace, 17x7 wheels with sticky tires. Very grippy, lots of fun, no need for aftermarket sway bars.
Again, appologies,
ken
I must appologize, I engaged my typing fingers before engaging my brain... I read your post incorrectly. You are correct, adding some oversteer WILL help cornering in these cars. They are designed to UNDERSTEER by the factory. Understeer is safe, Oversteer is fun...
I have never tried to corner a xB near the limit, I don't think I would like that experience much.
I do drive my xA near the limit often and have experienced oversteer once at about 70mph in a 35mph down hill, off camber corner... My mistake, I should have braked slightly harder before corner entry so I could begin accelerating sooner but it WAS quite a rush having the back end start to step out. Haven't experience that sensation since the muscle car days... (legal disclaimer: Don't try this at home, like the auto ads on TV-Closed Course/Professional Driver, yeah... I wish).
My xA is usually very neutal near the limit unless I blow the "line". Stock sway bars with urethane end link bushings in front, Eibach springs, factory struts/shocks, lower subframe brace, 17x7 wheels with sticky tires. Very grippy, lots of fun, no need for aftermarket sway bars.
Again, appologies,
ken
No no no its totally cool...i would probably do the same thing....I remember you posting about you rigging those endlinks for the front.....did you use some from the Echo....what car did you use for those? Thats another thing I want to do....
06-28-2004, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dinkjs
You dont want to do that.....it will hurt your suspension over all....what you want is more oversteer....replace the Hotchkis front sway bar with the stock sway bar and that will take care of your problem
06-29-2004, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by xtremeOrange
Originally Posted by dinkjs
You dont want to do that.....it will hurt your suspension over all....what you want is more oversteer....replace the Hotchkis front sway bar with the stock sway bar and that will take care of your problem
I take it you had the dealer include it as an option?????
06-29-2004, 03:17 AM
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The endlinks I used are generic urethane repalcement links available at most FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store) like Pepboys for $15-$20. I just shortend the center spacer until they were the same center to center length as the stock pieces. Easy install too as long as the suspension is loaded, like on a drive-on lift. Just be sure the end of the bolts clear the axle half shafts.
They make the stock sway bar much more effective, especially when transitioning from one direction to the other like in tight "S" curves. I have a little travled local road with a section nicknamed the "rollercoaster", about 8 tight turns with elevation changes thrown in, what a blast...
ken
They make the stock sway bar much more effective, especially when transitioning from one direction to the other like in tight "S" curves. I have a little travled local road with a section nicknamed the "rollercoaster", about 8 tight turns with elevation changes thrown in, what a blast...
ken
06-29-2004, 03:20 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by kdanie
The endlinks I used are generic urethane repalcement links available at most FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store) like Pepboys for $15-$20. I just shortend the center spacer until they were the same center to center length as the stock pieces. Easy install too as long as the suspension is loaded, like on a drive-on lift. Just be sure the end of the bolts clear the axle half shafts.
They make the stock sway bar much more effective, especially when transitioning from one direction to the other like in tight "S" curves. I have a little travled local road with a section nicknamed the "rollercoaster", about 8 tight turns with elevation changes thrown in, what a blast...
ken
They make the stock sway bar much more effective, especially when transitioning from one direction to the other like in tight "S" curves. I have a little travled local road with a section nicknamed the "rollercoaster", about 8 tight turns with elevation changes thrown in, what a blast...
ken
06-29-2004, 03:36 PM
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All it takes is a hacksaw to cut the spacer sleeve and file to finish the ends nicely.
There are versions available that are very close to the stock length but you may need new slightly shorter bolts to clear the half shafts. Grade 5 3/8" bolts work great. I just remembered, you can get them from Summit Racing and Jegs on line too.
Best $15 mod I've ever done to a car.
ken
There are versions available that are very close to the stock length but you may need new slightly shorter bolts to clear the half shafts. Grade 5 3/8" bolts work great. I just remembered, you can get them from Summit Racing and Jegs on line too.
Best $15 mod I've ever done to a car.
ken
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