ERIKB

I love my sawzall.....mainly I use it to scare the neighborhood children.

R2D2

^

saveacivic

no, then you replied to the title of the thread, not the thread. because the initial post clearly states that he has df210 springs. and the reason someone would cut aftermarket springs (specifically the front of the xb as stated over and over in this thread that you obviously have read) is to get the front even with the rear.

RTon20s, this wasnt directed at you. i dont even know why i quoted you.. my bad. i agree with what you said about cutting with a torch fully. that was my brain fart.
whoever wrote: "You'll be replacing the stock suspension much earlier than needed."
can you explain how how that works?

look, again, no disrespect intended to anyone. but if you dont know what the hell you are talking about, if you dont understand how suspension works, just leave it alone. and once more, if you cant back your statement with specifically why cutting springs (keep with me here people, were talking about front df210 springs on an xb) then you dont know what you are talking about. if you did, you would be able to provide a valid argument. i am almost to the point of where i want to take pictures and make diagrams

TerryStolmeier

Springs should never be cut. period.

If stock is too high, the put in aftermarket springs. If those are too high, then go with coil-overs. If that is still too high try airbags.

What ever you go with, use it as it was designed to be used. We don't need any more people putting thier safety as well as the safety of others aside just so thier vehicle will sit lower.

saveacivic

still no explanation huh... not much of an argument you have there sir... i remember when my parents told me not to cross my eyes but could never tell me what would come of it if i did. turned out they didnt know what would come of it. i feel like that now...

Okay i know you are all sick of this post. i'm over it too. you can only explain the same thing so many times while the other guy keeps saying "i dont know how, but it just is."
-i have one last thing to post for those still wondering whether or not my debate holds any merit. Just read it and derive your own conclusion. let not i nor them persuade you either way. suspension holds no mysteries, look at how your suspension funtions and decide logically.

this debate was a blast guys, thanks to those for and against my debate. your enthusiasm and persistence is inspiring. it all boils down to one thing, were are all here because we love cars. (even if you dont have a clue as to how they work) haha, -i had to...

TimmyT

I already said i was responding to the thread. and not to anyone specific. I guess I should have worded that different because the point i was trying to get accross was I was responding to the title of the thread. I thought I made that clear when I wrote the spiel about the title of the thread says this, and the thread starter said he had aftermarket springs, but didn't stipulate cutting aftermarket springs in the title... but now we know and knowing is half the battle.

I said "You'll be replacing the stock suspension earlier than needed". Unless you replace your shocks/struts with aftermarket parts that are mated for your aftermarket springs. The stock suspension will go through more wear and tear than it is intended for. Thus the life of those parts are decreased.

AND If you do buy aftermarket shocks/struts that are mated to your aftermarket springs; Then you CUT your aftermarket springs guess what....

The life of your aftermarket shocks/struts are decreased.

Often the manufacture take into account the weight distribution of the vehicle and make front or rear (what ever the case may be) stiffer than the other. So when you install the aftermarket springs your car is level.... If his car isn't level he installed his springs wrong... Or the springs he installed are ment to have that effect on the vehicle.

If it is the latter. Then he should have done his research and bought springs that matched what he was looking for.

saveacivic

this can be true but it depends on whether or not the spring is progressive wound or not. in the case of his springs, they are progressive. so for his specific application, you are correct.


it is possible to mis-seat the coil and have the uneven effect. also, i have seen the xb with every brand of springs mentioned in the springs sticky of this forum and none sit with the fender gap equal in front and rear. so he may have researched and just found that none seat with equal gap. as did i.

for reference- just because the car sits level does not mean the front and rear fender gaps are even. my fender gap is even (to the mm) but the car is not level (front is lower). you can fell that you are leaning slightly forward when in the car as well...

bB2NER

If the fronts are cut they don't fit the mount right and run the risk of popping out of the groove. The rears simply won't work if they are cut because they taper in at the top and bottom.

saveacivic

okay sir, this has been covered already. this is what i'm talking about posting without reading. and you are incorrect for the front sir, they fit the mount perfectly in the front as the springs are wound in a constant diameter. the dimensions never change (with the exception of height) through the majority of the duration of the wind.

any one else?... (for the love of God, please read it first. or at least just dont post any more mis-information. this is why people make fun of scionlife. too much mis-information.

bB2NER

ok. now you need to do the research.. Once the spring is cut the part that touches the seat only contacts for the first two inches and you run the risk of having it popping out of the seat.. instead of the whole upper ring seating.
research has nothing to do with it. I am the one who did this and this is what happened to me. I experienced this ..

TRDBox

Assuming a spring with 10 coils is 12" high, the diameter of spring wire is 0.75" wide, the outer diameter of the spring is 5" the following numbers are such:
Spring Constant = 575 lbf/in
Maximum load possible = 1720 lbf
Maximum shear stress possible = 5.61*10^4 psi

Now you take the above spring cut 1 coil off of it wich let's say reduces the height of the spring by 1.5" everything else stays the same except we now have 9 coils and a spring height of 10.5". The numbers now are:
Spring Constant = 639 lbf/in
Maximum load possible = 1440 lbf
Maximum shear stress possible = 4.68*10^4 psi

As you can see the maximum load said spring can now support has decreased along with the amount of shear stress it can handle.

just posting info i found
hope it helps

bB2NER

the stock spring sits on the floor all by its self FLAT.. now you cut off the spring and try doing this It WONT STAND UP ANYMORE...you have just lost the flat area on THE end .. this is my point. THEY WILL NO LONGER SIT IN THE SEAT THE WAY THEY WERE MEANT TO!!!

saveacivic

alright numb nuts (you dont mind if i call you that, do you?) i dont know about your xb but mine, my wifes and every xb i have seen so far dont have a flat area. so far as i know, xb's are all the same regardless of year thus far. (think before you post, can i get an amen to that?) if you are talking about overall height of the wound coil, no one has yet covered that in this thread. that is specific to the brand of springs you get. i think you are talking about keeping the coil compressed within the strut housing... i could not give much info for that subject except for the megan springs as that is what everyone i know has. just under 1/2 coil cut keeps the spring compressed still. no issues on 5 xb's i have done myself so far. AGAIN TO CLARIFY FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WILL POST HERE AND NOT READ THE THREAD CONTENT; this is a new topic of spring length prior and after cutting. seating is seating, coil length is important as well to keep the coil in the strut housing. this has not been covered yet in this thread (i know because i actually read it!). let the debating begin...

R2D2

saveacivic: Seriously just drop it. No advice is better than bad advice.
I'm not trying to make an attack on you, but theres no way most of us here can agree with you that cutting springs is a good thing. For example, I wouldn't suggest removing ur air filter because it'll increase performance, because the whole purpose is to filter out particles that may cause damage. In the same sense I don't recommend cutting springs because they're specifically designed, tested, and built for those conditions & parameters. I know this because I have a buddy who tests, develops, and designs suspensions. Sure you can cuttem, and it probrably wouldn't hurt too much, but on the same token u can also drive without an air filter too (as in the example above).

bB2NER

whats with the name calling.. I dont hear anyone calling you names cause you have a different opinion.. just makes mel less likely to listen to you if you have to resort to that type of attitude.. cant win so make fun of.. enough said .

saveacivic

okay, okay. i sincerely apologize. that was a dumb thing to say. it's just frustrating. i understand how you think they were made a certain way and you dont see it smart to change it, but i have worked for several suspension companies doing the designing and have a bit more of the inside. it can be argued that aftermarket springs altogether arent so hot of an idea and a full coilover kit is best. i cant argue with that except that it is not likely that the guy who just wants his car lower will pay that kind of money. and in that, springs are probably best for him. and that filter removing comment is quite a bit different. my simple argument was that there is no basis that anyone has yet laid down as to why this whole ordeal is not correct. everyone keeps hiding behind the "generalizing" blanket and that's their argument. zero facts so far. believe me i can agree that cutting springs is a bad idea on about 50% of cars but it has nothing to do with the actual cut. it is coil seating, or ride factors, not because it changes the design. if anyone is so worried about design then they really shouldnt be lowering your car because it was "designed"a certain way. these people shouldnt even be modifying their cars. the misinformation in here is avoidable. again, sorry about the name calling. just sick of repeating myself with specific information and then someone post some generalized reply about how "it just is." i just want to jump in and say "so how much do you know about suspension?"
since a generalized remark in here with no basis is obviously acceptable, let me make a standard comment as well; if you have no suspension background, if you have no idea how suspension works, if you havent sat and contemplated how your suspension could function more efficiently besides adding a bolt on, if you havent done suspension on at least a hundred cars, you probably just dont know much about suspension and thus should not try to educate ANYONE on suspension topics. you may know how to put your springs in and add a sway bar. heck you may even know what a bump stop is, but thats probably as far as it goes. and that's okay, but for the sake of those who dont know any better, try to keep the lame remarks to yourself. im sure explanations wont hurt anyone because it can make someone think. and that's a good thing.

djct_watt

OK, I a newb to this whole cutting thing, but I have been silently watching this tread. Saveacivic, you are absolutely right. . . almost every argument against you has been the "blanket" generalization argument, and nothing substantial.

I don't know if you've already covered it, but one argument perks my interest. I forgot who brought it up, but the whole point was that the spring has a full contact surface on the OEM spring. However, if you cut it, you don't have a full coil contacting the seat. Forgive my terminology and descriptors, I'm not too big on the technicals on this department.

Is this argument valid? Does it present a danger? Why or why not? And btw, thanks for the civil response. I like how this is technical debate and not a flame war. And again, sorry if you already answered this.

RTon20s

In some instances cutting a spring will in fact cause problems with seating. In other cases it will not. It all depends on the coil design. That is exactly what Saveacivic has been trying to say this entire thread. There are times when a coil is safe to be cut (within reason) and times that a coil is not. It all depends on the coil's and suspension system's original design.
And since I have never pulled apart the suspension on my wife's xB, I can not say for sure what is safe to do on our cars. I will defer to Saveacivic though, since he said it was safe to do on the front.

bB2NER

I want to make one last comment and then you are all on your own.. savea civic, I am not generalizing on my information. this is what I did and the results I got on my box. I cut off 1coil on the front spring and then it would no longer make full contact with the seat due to the angle on the spring. I had to make a bracket to go 180 degrees from the point where the spring contacted the seat in order to ensure the spring didnt move side to side or front to back and pop out of the seat.. Final words. just dont cut the stock springs.. replacement lowering springs are cheap enough to buy them.. and then you have the originals if you want to put it back to stock height for the winter.. I learned the hard way.

saveacivic

well jethro_b, im glad someone finially stepped up with an actuality. (at least 1 person is putting thought into it). but still i have my xb, my wifes, and 2 friends the same way. all done by me. no probs and i just peeked at mine and the wifes with a flashlight and both have more than 2 inches contacting the the perch. i dont know what to tell you, anyone can come see and drive my cars (that's how i got 1 friend to buy his xb). btw i live in orange county and work in santa barbara 4 days a week, so if it were going to come out, it would have already. there are no worse roads. maybe the megan springs are somehow different than what you had. these are constant wound, not progressive wound (but you already knew that).

anyway i think the people who wanted to know abut this already had their questions answered. a few xb owners pm'd me here to ask questions and one suzuki owner (oddly enough). i think they got sick of reading the same thing over and over. thus, my duty is done here. thanks for the debate guys, jethro_b, you're the only one who really even had a point in here, commendable sir...