Wheel weight-Significant?
01-08-2005, 05:37 PM
#1
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Wheel weight-Significant?
I'm thinking about getting some smoothies. They are 21lbs each. I believe our stocks are about 9 lbs each. Will this have significance in drivability, mileage, etc?
01-08-2005, 06:39 PM
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This is one of those items that is debated a lot and people have varying opinions on the effect.
Do a google search for "unsprung weight". This is why heavy wheels have a detrimental effect, IMO.
I think the stock wheel with tire runs 37 lbs. My maglites are 14lbs, not sure about the tire, tho...
Do a google search for "unsprung weight". This is why heavy wheels have a detrimental effect, IMO.
I think the stock wheel with tire runs 37 lbs. My maglites are 14lbs, not sure about the tire, tho...
01-08-2005, 08:45 PM
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Re: Wheel weight-Significant?
Originally Posted by stickler64
I'm thinking about getting some smoothies. They are 21lbs each. I believe our stocks are about 9 lbs each. Will this have significance in drivability, mileage, etc?
01-08-2005, 11:07 PM
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there won't be a huge difference in going from 19 to 21 lbs...but I would recommend getting the lightest wheels you can if handling, response, and fuel economy mean anything to you.
Every ounce counts when dealing with unsprung weight especially.
Every ounce counts when dealing with unsprung weight especially.
01-08-2005, 11:13 PM
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it's a two pound difference on each wheel. four wheels means you're adding eight pounds of unsprung weight.
i don't kno how true this is, but i've heard that each pound of unsprung weight is equivalent to four pounds of sprung weight. so, by adding eight pounds of unsprung weight, you're essentially adding on 32 pounds to the car.
it's a huge difference.
i don't kno how true this is, but i've heard that each pound of unsprung weight is equivalent to four pounds of sprung weight. so, by adding eight pounds of unsprung weight, you're essentially adding on 32 pounds to the car.
it's a huge difference.
01-09-2005, 03:53 AM
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32lbs.... you're not going to FEEL the difference.
1 gallon of 2% milk = 10.2lbs.
32lbs = 3 gallons of milk.
If you go buy 3 gallons of milk after work... when you get home, what's your thought for the rest of the evening? "MAN! THOSE 3 GALLONS OF MILK IN THE BACK OF THE BOX JUST KILLED MY GET-UP-N-GO ALL THE WAY HOME!"
......no
1 gallon of 2% milk = 10.2lbs.
32lbs = 3 gallons of milk.
If you go buy 3 gallons of milk after work... when you get home, what's your thought for the rest of the evening? "MAN! THOSE 3 GALLONS OF MILK IN THE BACK OF THE BOX JUST KILLED MY GET-UP-N-GO ALL THE WAY HOME!"
......no
01-09-2005, 04:39 AM
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The rule of thumb for unsprung weight is that one pound is the same as 10 pounds of sprung weight. So 32 pounds would be like adding 320 pounds to the car.
Ever notice the car drive a little worse when you have two people in it with you compared to when its just you? It would be about that same difference. Some people wouldn't even notice, some people would be really bothered by it...
Ever notice the car drive a little worse when you have two people in it with you compared to when its just you? It would be about that same difference. Some people wouldn't even notice, some people would be really bothered by it...
01-09-2005, 04:45 AM
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That is B.S. - your saying that adding wheels that weigh just a tad more is like adding 300+ pounds!
YEAH right!
Hows this, Ill get two of my buddies to drive around with me, then take off the stock wheels and put on my 18" TRD's, drive it by myself, and it should "feel" the same?
Not....
YEAH right!
Hows this, Ill get two of my buddies to drive around with me, then take off the stock wheels and put on my 18" TRD's, drive it by myself, and it should "feel" the same?
Not....
01-09-2005, 05:03 AM
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Take it to a track and get quarter mile times each way. Or just ask some of the regulars at the track about unsprung weight.
Its the same reason performance pulleys are made as lightweight at possible - every pound of moving parts saved is like taking 10 pounds of non-moving weight off. Its also why race cars use wheels made from extruded (not cast) aluminum - its the lightest possible material in one of the most critical weight areas of the car.
Its the same reason performance pulleys are made as lightweight at possible - every pound of moving parts saved is like taking 10 pounds of non-moving weight off. Its also why race cars use wheels made from extruded (not cast) aluminum - its the lightest possible material in one of the most critical weight areas of the car.
01-09-2005, 05:05 AM
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Quoted from http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/tech_tube_tires.html
"4. Weight & performance
In some cases it is acceptable to run a racing tire without a tube. When a car competes in a heads up class, unsprung weight is an important factor. Tires and tubes are all unsprung weight. One pound of "unsprung" weight is equal to 8 pounds of "sprung" weight. The average tube weighs about 6 pounds. Therefore, if you eliminate the tubes you have eliminated the equivalent of 96 pounds from the car. For every 10 pounds of unsprung weight removed you may pick up as much as .01 seconds in quarter mile ET. "
Just as an FYI: TheScionicMan stated that he thought the factory wheels, I'm assuming he's referring to the steel wheels with hubcaps, including the tires are 37 lbs. each. I have the Enkei 17" rims bought from the dealer. I brought one in one day when I was putting new springs on and put it on the scale. It came to 38 lbs.
"4. Weight & performance
In some cases it is acceptable to run a racing tire without a tube. When a car competes in a heads up class, unsprung weight is an important factor. Tires and tubes are all unsprung weight. One pound of "unsprung" weight is equal to 8 pounds of "sprung" weight. The average tube weighs about 6 pounds. Therefore, if you eliminate the tubes you have eliminated the equivalent of 96 pounds from the car. For every 10 pounds of unsprung weight removed you may pick up as much as .01 seconds in quarter mile ET. "
Just as an FYI: TheScionicMan stated that he thought the factory wheels, I'm assuming he's referring to the steel wheels with hubcaps, including the tires are 37 lbs. each. I have the Enkei 17" rims bought from the dealer. I brought one in one day when I was putting new springs on and put it on the scale. It came to 38 lbs.
01-09-2005, 05:38 AM
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my physics professor went over this with me. rotational inertia is a little different than inertia of a block to be pushed or sumthing. the farther out the weight is from the point where torque comes from, the more torque is needed to move that mass.
32lbs may not be the correct equivalent weight added, but the point is that heavier wheels means sarificing performence. you don't have to believe us, but we're just trying to help. i say that you should buy those wheels and prove us all wrong if you feel strongly enough about the trivialness of wheel weight.
32lbs may not be the correct equivalent weight added, but the point is that heavier wheels means sarificing performence. you don't have to believe us, but we're just trying to help. i say that you should buy those wheels and prove us all wrong if you feel strongly enough about the trivialness of wheel weight.
01-09-2005, 07:41 AM
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The added weight of rotating mass will make a significant difference. The analogy that it would be like adding 250-300 lbs. in the back of your car is correct. Will also make a signicant change in handling. Sometimes however, this is offset somewhat by the improvement of grip, from, say a 17 inch, lower (and wider) profile wheel vs. the skinny little (and taller) 15 inch wheel. Having said that. The best overall wheel and compromise between looking good, handling good, and acceleration would be found in a nice LIGHTWEIGHT 17 inch wheel. All those using 18s and 19s will say they can't tell a difference between performance are just trying to justify looking good over performing well. That's fine. Heck, this is a Scion. If we were really interrested in performance, this is not the best vehicle to start out with. There is nothing wrong with just looking cool. 
If you are looking to truely improve your performance though, do not go any bigger than 17 inch. And keep it light. No chrome!
If you are looking to truely improve your performance though, do not go any bigger than 17 inch. And keep it light. No chrome!
01-09-2005, 02:26 PM
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Lightweight wheels have another drawback - if you hit a pothole or curb them, they are far more likely to have irreparable damage. Its why lightweight wheels don't come stock on all cars in the first place.
To go really lightweight get extruded aluminum, not cast. An old friend of mine had them (wrapped in Hoosier's) on his grand national, and just that change alone took 4 tenths of a second off his quarter-mile times. That thing was BUILT - ran in the 12's!
To go really lightweight get extruded aluminum, not cast. An old friend of mine had them (wrapped in Hoosier's) on his grand national, and just that change alone took 4 tenths of a second off his quarter-mile times. That thing was BUILT - ran in the 12's!
01-10-2005, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mfbenson
The rule of thumb for unsprung weight is that one pound is the same as 10 pounds of sprung weight. So 32 pounds would be like adding 320 pounds to the car.
Ever notice the car drive a little worse when you have two people in it with you compared to when its just you? It would be about that same difference. Some people wouldn't even notice, some people would be really bothered by it...
Ever notice the car drive a little worse when you have two people in it with you compared to when its just you? It would be about that same difference. Some people wouldn't even notice, some people would be really bothered by it...
The 32lb figure comes from the post that I was replying to... where it says
it's a two pound difference on each wheel. four wheels means you're adding eight pounds of unsprung weight.
i don't kno how true this is, but i've heard that each pound of unsprung weight is equivalent to four pounds of sprung weight. so, by adding eight pounds of unsprung weight, you're essentially adding on 32 pounds to the car.
i don't kno how true this is, but i've heard that each pound of unsprung weight is equivalent to four pounds of sprung weight. so, by adding eight pounds of unsprung weight, you're essentially adding on 32 pounds to the car.
01-10-2005, 05:19 AM
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Sorry, all those gallons of milk made my head spin 
If he's only adding a pound per wheel, then you're right. For some reason I had it in my head he was adding something like 12 pounds per wheel.
Oh, I know why... the ORIGINAL POST OF THIS THREAD says he's adding 12!!
Sheesh. Just because a response follows yours doesn't mean its automatically directed at you.
If he's only adding a pound per wheel, then you're right. For some reason I had it in my head he was adding something like 12 pounds per wheel.
Oh, I know why... the ORIGINAL POST OF THIS THREAD says he's adding 12!!
Sheesh. Just because a response follows yours doesn't mean its automatically directed at you.
01-10-2005, 06:46 AM
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About curbing lightweight wheels: forged lightweight wheels are stronger than cast wheels of the same weight, so its more of a construction thing. Another benefit of not going larger than 17 in is that you have more tire protecting the rim, unlike those 18 and 19 inch wheels with those thin little rubber bands!