mikem53

Would not dent as easy, more rigidity (unibody), less tinny sound. better in crashes..

mikem53

The mini is the best handling FWD car on the planet.. The steering ratio, size and weight make it a great track car. It does not exhibit the traditional plowing found in FWD cars... it has some, but its very controlled... If it had RWD, it would almost be perfect...
Try driving one sometime... its amazing when it comes to the twisties..

svt_to_xb

1) a dent forms from impact, not because of thickness. thicker sheetmetal will still dent

2) rigidity, i don't know about you but my panels don't vibrate.

3) They only sound tinny if you hit them.

4) If there better in crashes why are the worse cars in crash test ratings with thicker sheetmetal?

svt_to_xb

Thanks,but I use to have an SVT focus. Which was awesome. neither front or rear suck. They both have there advantedges.

mfbenson

Motorweek says 136 feet for 60 to 0, which they call a "solid performance". That's only 11 feet longer than the tC's 125 feet, and it does have all discs... If you really need those last 11 feet in an xB I would take some time to think about what you are doing, where you are doing it, and what you are doing it in.

As for power, you had it in the context of enough power to get up hills, and I've driven mine up a 40 degree grade with no problem. I imagine if you were hauling something near the weight capacity of the vehicle it might be a problem, but for driving up normal hills the power is "plenty".

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2303a.shtml

schweikhard1

I wish that I could but the more I investigate the more upset I get, I now find out that my dealership is charging me $350 more than the 2 other surrounding dealerships. Wow talk about icing on the cake. Those dealerships also put me in contact with some of their customers and when things like this happened to them, they were given the parts at employee price and a discount on labor! Wow and I get a bill thats $300 to much. I know, my problem must lie with the dealership when it comes down to it. But if I keep having to replace $1000 parts then my cheap little car becomes a huge money pit! Thanks for the sympathy, it is nice to just be able to vent!

mikem53

What speed did motorweek use to test the brakes.... 30 mph? The brakes are far from being phenomenal.. and the accel results are nothing to write home about.... especially in real world use with more than just a driver... Sure I can make it up hills... but having to merge or speed up to change lanes can be a challenge at best.

From C&D

C/D TEST RESULTS

ACCELERATION (Seconds)

Zero to 30 mph: 3.5
40 mph: 5.4
50 mph: 7.8
60 mph: 10.6
70 mph: 15.0
80 mph: 20.9
90 mph: 29.0
Street start, 5-60 mph: 11.1
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 5.5
50-70 mph: 8.0
Standing 1/4-mile: 18.2 sec @ 75 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 103 mph

BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 200 ft

HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.75 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive

mfbenson

Yes. Call your insurance company. You had a collision with road debris.

mikem53

I disagree.. when it comes to performance... RWD is the only way to go..
FWD is designed for economy and packaging... RWD costs more, adds compexity but the advantages for performance are undeniable...
While many FWD cars are performance oriented, they are confined to the llaws of physics... The front unloads the drive wheels during acceleration, they plow, torque steer limits the amount of power... and the list goes on...

mikem53

I agree.... it could happen in any car as the condensor is exposed to the elements...

mfbenson

Ok, to put it in context here's C/D's numbers on the tC:

C/D TEST RESULTS

ACCELERATION, Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.4
40 mph: 3.8
50 mph: 5.3
60 mph: 7.4
70 mph: 9.7
80 mph: 12.6
90 mph: 16.4
100 mph: 20.9
110 mph: 28.4
Street start, 5-60 mph: 8.0
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 8.5
50-70 mph: 9.0
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.7 sec @ 88 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 127 mph

BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 179 ft

HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive


The xB is actually one second FASTER in 50 to 70 (which is really hard to believe, I'd think I'd know since I own one of each, but whatever) and its 70 to 0 is 21 feet longer. Still, that's only 10% worse than the tC, and while the tC is no Z06 either, it is at least sporty enough to say its a sport coupe with a straight face.

In fact, I can't believe that 9.0 figure for 50 to 70 in a tC. That's got to be a typo or something. I'll time it tonight on the highway on my way home. I'm convinced its got to be a lot shorter than that.

edit: ^^^ DUH! its "top gear" acceleration, no downshifting allowed. Well of course its a dog in top gear, that one's for economy not speed.

I should really learn how to read sometime.

svt_to_xb

Then all performance cars would be rwd. In track racing front wheel my not outdo rear wheel, but it is more stable for an ametuer racer. and they only plow and have torque steer limits if there over pushed.

mikem53

Show me a FWD Indy car, F1 car, NASCAR or any other purpose built race car.... there aren't any for the reasons I already mentioned.
They exist because car manufacturers make so many of them and people who own them want to have fun... but they are limited by physics and the ability to put the power down. Try and find a 50/50 balanced FWD car.... its not going to happen... try and put a beefed up tranny and diff in the confined space of FWD.... hit the gas and the front tires unload...
etc...etc...
FWD is not more stable when pushed to its limits.... the front tires dont do well when they have to steer, brake, power the car... they are overloaded

svt_to_xb

but saying they suck is wrong as well, I'm not driving an indy car to work. And its funny that most autocross cars are front wheel drive. What I'm saying is neither suck. They both do well for there applications. If they didn't you mini would be rear wheel drive.

Tmanion

"Then all performance cars would be rwd. In track racing front wheel my not outdo rear wheel, but it is more stable for an ametuer racer. and they only plow and have torque steer limits if there over pushed."

You've reached a false conclusion; not all performance cars are designed to perform optimally, as there're other factors at hand, i.e. cost, safety etc. If this weren't the case every sports car would be mid engined too.

The above poster is unable to view this argument from an objective position since he obviously has an emotional attachment to FWD i.e SVT Focus

svt_to_xb

Not emotional. I'm trying to state, or make fact that both server ther purposes. To solely state the front wheel drive sucks is opinion and is false.

And the other vehicle I own is a miata. And I enjoyed driving both. Equally.

Sciond

Most of the issues mentioned hera can be adressed.... I fixed in mine for a small investment....still no power house....but it handles very well with upgrades...the ac..yes the fix did not do too much...noise hell I upgraded the sound system and added an exhaust...so who hears the engine? Like Mike stated I have other cars and I prefer this to them...I was all set to buy the RX330(wife liked it)...but I just really liked the box...still do 1yr and 27,000 miles later....to me the bottem line is for the price you can't beat it..and for a reasonab;e amount you can solve most of the issues or upgrade enough to where they are palitable........

rdclark

(This should be in its own thread.)

You can have your car serviced under warranty at any Scion dealer. You don't have to go where you bought it.

RichC

commotoed

1- power adequate, barely (just dreamin) Transplant Celica engine with awd?
2-Thin sheet metal, everything else is too! unless it's plastic
3-Interior lighting, always could use some more lights, cargo lamp?
4-Noisey, not the sweet sound of a tuned Celica awd.
5-A/C no problems across the desert in July?
6-Bouncy ride? That is what "good" shocks are for, can you say Koni?
7-Dip stick, whatever?
8-Drum brakes, plenty till the Celica engine is installed.
9-Paint, I think with the large flat panels more care and wax will be involved.
10-Opinions are like a**holes, everyones got one!

hotbox05

this is not my ideal car no but it's a brand new well appointed car that will be reliable and to me is very very good looking.. i just wish it had 30 more hp and rwd would be nice. i can honestly live with fwd i just don't like it....