natesi

Hey guys,

I’m pretty set on the xB being my next car… I’ve figured out how to work around or change anything that I don’t like, or want to improve, with one exception: The head lights.

I thought the headlights were UTTERLY TERRIBLE when I rented the xB. How in the world, can this be good (see pic)?

There could be a deer on the side of the road, just beyond the not-so-far-reaching headlights. Or a cat on the roof of that car, getting ready to jump down in front of you. There could be a vehicle parked on the left side of the road, just beyond the fence. I mean, you cant see $h^+!!


Personally, I don’t understand all the rave around projector beam headlights. I think this totally blows.

Anyhoo, back to the subject at hand: How can this be fixed?


I'm NOT interested in HIDs. From the pics that I've seen, it only makes what is visible brighter -- doesn't seem to make MORE visible though, which is what I'd like to correct.


I’ve read some things about “squirrel finders” but I’m a little lost as to what they do. I want something as close to “normal” headlights as I can get.

Is that possible?

Y8RS

headlights are adjustable..

natesi

I'm not sure I understand. In what way?

Are you saying I should simply raise them and blind everybody?

I don't really see that as a solution.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I don't really understand what you're complaining about. My xB2 projectors are hugely brighter than my Eclipse' Sylvania "SilverStar" Halogens. If you're complaining about the cut-off, well, if it wasn't for that, you'd be blinding oncoming traffic and the headlights would be (and should be) illegal. If you need to see further out, use the high beams (though not with oncoming traffic or in neighborhoods), the rest of the time, be glad you have such bright low beams -- I sure am.

natesi

Also, for anyone who has added fog lights, did the way they disperse light help see anything beyond the projector "cut off"?

KaneoheKoa

The headlights on most cars are adjustable, to a degree. You could have used a car with the lights adjusted improperly. One thing you cannot change is it's beam pattern: it's a function of the projector itself (hence the name projector headlights). Regular headlights have really awful light spill control: lots of light going where you don't need it (like into the oncoming driver's eyes). Projector headlights were designed to prevent this. For me, I find the headlights on my xB2 just fine. More and more cars are being designed for projectors, especially if HIDs are being used (poorly designed HIDs look like high beams to the oncoming driver, blinding them).

Go to a Scion dealer at night and give their car a test drive and see what their Box does.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Fog lights are intended for improving immediate zone visibility in poor visibility conditions. They in no way increase headlight throw. Look at their mounting height and you'll immediately have the answer to your question. If they were projecting beyond the projectors, what do you think they'd do to the vision of oncoming traffic, not to mention yourself with all the back reflection into your eyes with fog or other precipitation? They'd be worse than useless, they'd be dangerous.

natesi

Like I said, brightness isn't the issue. You don't see the problem with the pic I posted?

I've owned 8 cars in my life. If there was a cat on the roof of that car, you would have seen it with any other car. On the xB you wouldn't. I don't think it's nearly as safe. You cannot see anything beyond the cut off.

The road could make a sharp left turn just beyond that car and you wouldn't even know it. Lame.

I couldn't disagree more. I find projector beams MORE blinding than regular headlights. Why? Because the beams are intensely focused, often in your FACE. The false presumption is that the cut off is above on coming driver's head. That's all well and good -- in an ARTIFICIAL / hypothetical world where roads are perfectly level, that would be great. But in the real world, it is not. In the real world roads are not level, many have rolling hills, get raised at intersections, etc. Result: projector beam right in the oncoming driver's face. It's insane.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I think you strongly overstate that argument, getting very bright lights in my eyes due to undulating surfaces is hardly a new experience, including flats where many of the idiots out there insist they want to "see" and so keep their brights on all the time (including in my rear view mirror).

Good luck finding your solution. Nothing's perfect, but as a general compromise, I'm pleased with what the xB2 accomplishes (and unquestionably a compromise). If you increase the height of the beam, you are going to worsen any oncoming traffic problems. Maybe the traditional sealed beam solution would work best for you, but I've no idea how to cleanly make that conversion in the xB2.

natesi

I'm not asking if they extend the projection. I'm wondering if they help disperse the light a little bit -- above the projector's cut off. For example, if there was a cat on the roof of that car, would the fogs do anything? Just looking at the design of the fogs, they seem like they throw light everywhere (although they are mounted close to the ground, so most of it would go there). Furthermore, most fogs I've been a victim of (as an oncoming driver) are more blinding than headlights. Hence, I would think they might help with throwing some light above the projector beam cut off, even if only close to the vehicle.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, if you have experienced fog lights in your eyes, then they were seriously out of correct alignment. If they are in the eyes of oncoming drivers, imagine what their reflection back into your eyes is going to be with precipitation -- their reason for existence. That's why I said dangerous. You have to think in terms of what they are designed to do -- hence my above post regarding them. They are mounted very low specifically to avoid reflections back into the driver's eyes. Correct alignment has the upper edge of the beam exactly parallel to the road, anything higher will cause reflections, anything lower will reduce effectiveness.

toober75

I've had my xb for three years now. Never have had any problem seeing. I street signs are lit at least 100 plus yards away. (because of the squirrel finders.) The issue isn't that the headlights are bad. They just have a definite cutoff as apposed to reflector headlights that have more of a gradual cutoff. You just need to change your thinking not the headlights.

natesi

I know what they are "designed" to do. I just don't think most foglights (especially OEM ones) do it very well. Most seem to throw light light everywhere, IMO. The ONLY reason why most of the light is on the ground is because the fogs are mounted so close to the ground.

= )

Aftermarket fogs are a different story...

natesi

What are squirrel finders? And can I adjust them?

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

They're designed to throw light everywhere but up, though that aspect is governed purely by correct vertical alignment. When you're driving with the foglights on (which should only happen if you also have the low beams on), you should get a much better view to the front sides as well as the road surface and the immediate zone ahead of you. They are intended to complement and assist the low beams during precipitation. Both my cars have them and I find them to work very well. If you want them to do something else, then you don't want fog lights, you want something else.

AAG

iTrader: (1)

There really is no fix to this, all projectors have a sharp cut-off. It never really bothered me but I did add oem fogs and h9 (clear) bulbs to both the headlights and fogs. They help quite a bit over the stock h11 bulbs.

FromTheOld

The other topic was understandable, but I really don't understand this one (or why it was made) but I'll just leave with saying this.

I do not have trouble seeing anything during the daytime, night time, rain, or snow. The lighting is fine and there's nothing that really needs to be done with the headlight design.

natesi

Sweet; thanks!

CIONIDE

iTrader: (1)

I've been watching this thread throughout the day, and trying to stay away, but I can't bite my tongue any longer.

I'm guessing that if the picture you posted in the first post is actually an accurate photo representation of the lighting from those rental xB headlights, that they were aimed terribly downward. My stock xB2 projector beam headlights were the best of any vehicle I have ever owned in my 30 years of driving. That being said (and I know you don't want to hear this natesi), your solution is an HID conversion kit. OEM halogen low beam bulbs produce about 1200 lumens of light output, while HID's in the 4300-5000k range produce give or take 3000 lumens of output. This is not brightness, it's actual visible light output. If you take a look at post #29 on page 2 of this thread, you'll see what I'm talking about:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/sho...=161060&page=2

The pics against the garage door show the clean cut-off line, as well as the extra light above that is caused by the "squirrel finders" which help see street signs at night. You will note that in the second set of backyard yard pics below the garage shots that you can see much better to the sides with the HID's, as well as much better straight forward. The green bushes in the distance are about 50 feet away, and while they appear short, they are actually about 8' tall. You can't see that because of the cut-off shield; if the squirrel finders allowed extraneous light to shine above at that distance, you would see it, and so would oncoming drivers. I live in Cali, which is famous for police abusing laws that pertain to import mods, but I have never had any problems with my HID's, and I have followed directly behind many Johnny Law vehicles at night.

If this isn't enough to put you at ease, then maybe you should think about spending a lot more money on a vehicle that is perfect for you... if you can find one. Not hating on you at all, just trying to put your worries into proper perspective. I've owned everything from classic American muscle cars, to mid-generation Mustangs, to Nissan Z-cars, to Buicks and Cadillacs, and this has been the most reliable, least expensive to operate, most fun car I have ever owned. I think you are valid in asking questions before buying a new car, but you are getting a bit nick-picking when analyzing the pros and cons of a $16-17k entry level vehicle.

Rant over.

natesi

Thanks cionide.

I think some people read too much into my post. I'm just looking for a solution to a problem. I don't like projectors for multiple reasons; wouldn't matter how expensive of a car it was.

After seeing your pics, I will keep the HIDs in mind. I plan on having this car for 10+ years, so it would be nice if I didn't have to suffer with lights that I hate, is all. I don't want to make a decision I regret. Of course, if there's a way to FIX my "problem" that would be ideal -- which was my reason for posting.