roXor_boXor

No problem. I find this to be a very interesting topic. I do not believe that Toyota is "dumping" (as generally defined).
http://www.stfrancis.edu/ba/ghkickul...ks/dumping.htm
http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/adp_e/adp_e.htm

As an example, in some other threads about the Rumion they have links to the prices. The Rumion is listed for prices ranging from 1,753,000 yen for the 2WD 1.5L "A" version up to 2,233,000 yen for the 4WD 1.8L "A". That is $14,938 to $19,029 US (per the 10/10/07 exchange rate). Comparing that to the xB price, it looks pretty much the same.

In the end, I think Toyota is doing exactly what they say they are doing with Scion. They are bringing low cost vehicles that are interesting and a really good deal to introduce people who have never considered a Toyota to the family in the hope they will become loyal Toyota customers. They are using manufacturing strategies such as the monospec to ensure prices stay low. Some buyers, like me, are not in their target market and have bought Toyota products for years. Some of us already loyal Toyota customers just know a good deal when we see it. :D

uberspeed

With those definitions then it would be tough to make an argument.
What I would define as dumping by Toyota in this scenario is that they're making very little profit to grab market share. They're doing well with Toyota and Lexus so the bring in scion to grab more of the pie. Great business move any way you slice it, their stronger arms are giving this branch a chance to exist on slim margins, good for them I guess.
Bringing non Toyota folks into the fold, yes, I'd say they're doing that as well, myself included. My mom had an 89 Cressida that gave her problems, I had sworn off of Toyo's. Fast forward to 2005 and I told my mom to buy a Scion xB made by Toyota. Go figure. Times change, needs change, attitudes adapt, pocketbook dictates a lot as well.

roXor_boXor

I don't remember details, but I recall that the Cressida was not a good car. I knew one person who had one and he hated it. Toyota is definitely not perfect, but I like the odds of having a good car when I buy one.

xb27

Car sales overall are down, Orange county is down 17.4% this month over last year...the economy is VERY bad partly due to the sub-prime mortgage debacle...

t-ak-box

Quote:

Originally Posted by xb27

Car sales overall are down, Orange county is down 17.4% this month over last year...the economy is VERY bad partly due to the sub-prime mortgage debacle...

You hit nail on the head. I've heard that alot of Automakers are having or expecting a hard candy market. Waitng to see how the economy will be.

mtxblau

They've toned down the xB2 design to match the squarishness of the previous xB, and dropped the extra horses:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/09/x...orolla-rumion/

Though it looks like they kept the interior verbatim. Which is kind of depressing, because the xB2's style isn't exactly groundbreaking in the U.S., but it would've stuck out in the JDM.

toronado

I just found the link to where I first read about this last November.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=117524

morris7

That doesn't say it intends to limit sales to 150k. As I said before, Scion is on track to sell some 130k in '07. That's down some 40k from '06. I refuse to believe that's intentional. All three models are not selling very well. Lots of positive spin here, but it doesn't fly.

808-213-503

Yeah, but at least they offer the option of the xD/Corolla engine. The styling is still the basic Calty design...and that rocks!

avus

there were no xA or xB cars for 2-3 months -- some dealerships only had tCs to sell during that time
this accounts for the lower #s
simple as that

mtxblau

I think you missed the initial post.

roXor_boXor

Clearly Toyota just needs to cut their losses, kill the Scion division and go home with their tails between their legs.

peestandingup

Exactly. "Hey, this time around, instead of having a runaway hit on our hands, lets come out with a car that doesn't sell & sits on the lots." I dont think that would go over too well at the shareholders meeting.

Trust me, they wanted to push this car into the mainstream even more, which is why they redesigned it the way they did. But, in doing that, I believe they alienated the loyalists while sill being a bit too pricey & not economical enough for the mainstream. It wasnt a smart move to raise the price while lowering the MPG. Were not living in a good time to do those things & sales is reflecting that.

The xB2 doesn't really know what it wants to be & is having an identity crisis. Thats my personal opinion though.

Bigfieroman

I don't think you can legitimately make blanket statements like that, considering how many gen 1 to gen 2 converts there are in this thread, let alone on this forum.

peestandingup

I said "I believe", as in "thats my personal opinion." Maybe its true, maybe its not.

And sure there have been gen1 to gen2 converts. But to what scale. Does anyone really know?? I don't think its as many as you think. I certainly remember the number of "hater" threads/posts in this forum as well, especially toward the beginning of the gen2's life. It was staggering if I remember correctly. And not just nit picky stuff, it was sheer hate. I personally know 3 other gen1 drivers & they hate the new one.

But, we are also talking about "mainstream" here too. They were supposed to play a BIG role in the success of this vehicle. Probably more than previous Scion owners. So, they made the design changes that would appeal to those buyers more & took the xB outta the niche market that it occupied. I think its safe to say that would ruffle some feathers of the old school owners. I think thats a fair statement.

Anyways, as a Scion "loyalists", thats what I see is happening. Maybe I have it wrong & its something else. I dont know, Im not an analyst. But if you asked me personally as a Scion guy, that would be my answer.

typhoonorchid

That reminds me of the movie Spinal Tap. When Rob Riener says:" Spinal tap used to play big arenas and stadiums, now they play 1,000-1,500 seat venues. Is their popularity waining at all?
Response: "Oh no, their audience is just becoming more selective."
LOL

One thing I notice about xB2 is: I don't spot them a long way off like I do xB1s. I recognize them up close, but they blend in with other mainstream cars at a distance.
xB1 never did that.

Um... no that's not how new car sales patterns work. They either start strong and stay strong and start strong and get weaker. New cars never start weak and get stronger.
The problem with a new car having weaker demand then expected, means resale will suffer too. There are a lot of 1st gens on the road, that's true. But demand for them in the used car market will be strong for a long time.

Cmec2004

Agreed

jackchan

I have heard that its hard finding xb2 in Wash state and xa is gone and the tc is old hat now
XD not out yet
+ sub prime
+ banks harder on loan requirements
+ high gas prices