Jimmy101

I was wondering why this new engine which is 1.8 puts out less power then
toyota's older 2000 celica gt 1.8L engine which puts out 140 and the 2000 gts peaks at 180. As a 2008 model 1.8L engine to only put out 128hp???

Please educate me!

scionofPCFL

For starters, there are new SAE standards for calculating HP that would account for at least some of that difference. However, I too was suprised with the power with the addition of dual vvt-i. I was thinking it would have been somewhere in the mid 130's.

omicron

Honda Civic is also using a 1.8 but gets 140 HP (SAE net, Rev 8/04) with a 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC.

draxcaliber

yeah, and if scion boosted the hp to 140 or say 180 like the celica, how many angry posts would we get about the mpg going down?

it is probably a political dealy. why pay more for a corolla or matrix with the same hp and features as an xd?

anyway, it probably would make the mid 130's to 140 under the old sae measurements, but not the new ones.

omicron

I guess the new aggressive shape hurt MPG but set it apart from other competition and it's former self (xA). Of course, they could have went with a shape like a Mazda2 and thrown in the 1.8 L.

draxcaliber

shape has nothing to do with epa fuel estimates. the epa test is done in a completely sterile lab environment that is nothing like the real world because it is devoid of nearly all variables like wind resistance. it is just the car and a treadmill.

SquallLHeart

actually.... EPA has new methods of testing and the new numbers for estimated milages are taken from those new tests.

new testing does include usage of the a/c, higher speeds (which who knows if they account wind resistance for that.. but i assume at least rpm), and cold temp operations.

omicron

That's true. But a Honda Civic can get 40 MPG (old EPA numbers) using a 1.8 L.

SHU

I know of a few people with the new civic and none of them are getting 40 on the hway. My girlfriend had a 2002 civic ex that got 41 mpg on the hway all day long. I guess thats what they call progress.

scionofPCFL

I've got it! It was so obvious, I can't believe we didn't figure this out already, but here's a clue: tuner car! They want the tuners to wring out the hp they could have, so word will spread, "man, with just $1400 in bolt-ons, I'm putting 195 to the wheels, man! And I'm still getting 30 mpg!!! Woot!"









That's my story, and I'm sticking to it

GarmaZed

Toyota has always been pretty conservative with their vehicles, so a weak hp on a 1.8 is kinda normal for them to begin with. Look at the tC, it's only 160 horses, even!

Secondly, the xD is replacing the ultra-conservative xA, and to lose that lower-priced market would be detrimental to Scion's mission/goal. They are meant as an entry-vehicle brand, ya know?

So I say it's because of Scion's heritage, and if they did use a 180 horse engine the price would shoot up too high and they'd lose the market that the xA had.

DanPorges

It also has to do with some states insurance rating system.... some base part of the premium calculation on the COO SAE HP figure.

GarmaZed

Yeah, there really isn't a simple answer. There are a whole bunch of angles and factors that are part of it.

Swordsman

Just FYI, the numbers for the xD match up very closely with the 1.8l found in the Matrix. The Matrix XR and Celica have a 1.8l w/ VVT that allows for those higher numbers.

I'm having to pull this from memory, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

~SM

GarmaZed

Nope, you're pretty right. I think it's safe to say that the engine was pulled from the Corolla/Matrix line.

Swordsman

I've noticed now that the xD has a 1.8l with VVT-i.... I would think that should put it up around the 180 hp of the Celica's 1.8l with VVT, but for some reason it doesn't. Guess we'll have to find out what's up with this later on!
~SM

draxcaliber

the 180 hp 1.8 liter engine is from the celica gt-s and matrix xrs and corolla xrs which have vvtl-i, or variable valve timing with LIFT that make it up to that 180 hp. the 140 hp celica gt engine didn't have lift, just vvt-i.

it is probably just a game of price per hp. they can't sell the cheaper when carably equiped xd with more power than the corolla and matrix because it would be a conflict of interest between the cars.

scion xd: 128 hp, cheapest, corolla: 130, matrix: 140?

if they all had 140, people would be like "why buy the corolla or matrix when the xd is cheaper and has the same engine and blah blah blah"

butterfly0fdoom

No, actually, I think it's been established plenty of times that it's a new engine, not the one from the current US Corolla/Matrix line (but rather the next-generation Corolla/??? line).

GarmaZed

It's a general assumption, not literal.

Kremtok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_ZR_engine

Toyota ZR engine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The ZR engine family is a new generation of engines introduced in 2007 by Toyota Motor Corporation. All engines in the ZR family are 4 cylinder engines with desplacement varying from 1.6L to 1.8L . All engines in this engine family are also equipped with Toyota's new technology of Dual VVT-i.


1ZR-FE
The Toyota 1ZR-FE is a DOHC, 16 valve, 1.6L (1598cc) engine equipped with Dual VVT-i, which means it has Variable Valve Timing on both the intake and exhaust valves. This engine is available with either manual gearbox or a "multi-mode" transmission. Output for this engine is rated at 124 hp at 6000rpm and 116 ft·lbf of torque at 5200 RPM.

Specs:
Engine type : In-Line 4-cylinder DOHC-16 valve
Bore x Stroke : 80.5 x 78.5 mm
Compression Ratio : 10.2:1
Applications:
Toyota Corolla

2ZR-FE
The Toyota 2ZR-FE is a DOHC, 16 valve, 1.8L (1797cc) engine equipped with VVT-i. This all-new engine is now replacing the 1ZZ-FE engine in most applications. Output for this engine is rated at 136 hp at 6000 RPM and 129 ft·lbf of torque at 4400 RPM.

Specs:
Engine Type : In-Line 4-cylinder DOHC-16 valve
Bore x Stroke = 80.5 x 88.3 mm
Compression Ratio : 10.0:1
Weight : 97 kg (without fuel)
Applications:
Toyota Yaris TS
Toyota Corolla
Scion xD