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Gas prices pinch Scion as it rolls out the new xB
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Gas prices pinch Scion as it rolls out the new xB
I don't know, but if were up to me I would have gone with the old xB but added side air bags. What do you think?
Bon
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Bon
Allscion -- an e-commerce website with news and accessories for your Scions
http://www.allscion.com/store
Scion is rolling out the second generation of its signature car, the boxy xB mini-wagon. When the strategy for the new nxB was mapped out some two years ago, making the car bigger, putting more power under the hood, and installing more safety technology were deemed more important than shooting for a specific mileage target, such as 30 miles per gallon on the highway.
[Scion xB]1
Toyota
See a slideshow of Scion's new xB
The result: The new 2008 xB's mileage ratings are 22 miles per gallon in the city, 28 highway -- not so impressive when compared with the 2007 Chevrolet HHR mini-wagon, at 23 city, 30 highway, the Honda Fit, at 31 city, 38 highway, or the old Scion xB at 30 city, 34 highway. (The new xB's EPA mileage ratings also are calculated using a new more conservative formula that will penalize most vehicles.)
The old xB had a tiny, 103 horsepower engine, compared with the 158 horsepower, 2.4 liter four cylinder in the redesigned model. (The new xB sticks with a four-speed automatic, however, which looks dated compared with the five-speed automatic offered in the Honda Fit.)
Steve Haag, Scion corporate manager, defended the new xB at a press event in this Detroit suburb yesterday, saying that when various cost and performance trade-offs for the new xB were weighed two years ago, the message from customers seemed clear: They wanted more power. So the more potent 2.4 liter engine, also used by the sporty Scion tC coupe, seemed like the right call.
Now, Mr. Haag says some Scion enthusiasts who liked the old xB for its quirky Japan home market styling and high mileage ratings might not like the new car. But he argues those numbers will be small. Scion, he adds, doesn't promote mileage. It promotes a brand -- aiming its marketing efforts at "urban trendsetters" who make up 10% of the 142 million Americans age 35 and under. ...
Toyota hasn't released pricing for the xD yet, but it's likely to be less than the xB -- the new version of Scion's de facto core model goes for $16,660, Scion says, about $1,700 more than the previous model. Kelley Blue Book says consumers are really paying $17,180.
Though a modest price increase at first glance, nearly $2,000 could alienate Scion's loyal hipster-base that's used to paying around $15,000 and then deciding whether to shell out another $1,000 on upgrades or other customizations.
"You're well over [$17,000] to get a base version. That doesn't sound cheap to me anymore," says Karl Brauer, editor-in-chief of Edmunds.com, a popular car-shopping Web site.
[Scion xB]1
Toyota
See a slideshow of Scion's new xB
The result: The new 2008 xB's mileage ratings are 22 miles per gallon in the city, 28 highway -- not so impressive when compared with the 2007 Chevrolet HHR mini-wagon, at 23 city, 30 highway, the Honda Fit, at 31 city, 38 highway, or the old Scion xB at 30 city, 34 highway. (The new xB's EPA mileage ratings also are calculated using a new more conservative formula that will penalize most vehicles.)
The old xB had a tiny, 103 horsepower engine, compared with the 158 horsepower, 2.4 liter four cylinder in the redesigned model. (The new xB sticks with a four-speed automatic, however, which looks dated compared with the five-speed automatic offered in the Honda Fit.)
Steve Haag, Scion corporate manager, defended the new xB at a press event in this Detroit suburb yesterday, saying that when various cost and performance trade-offs for the new xB were weighed two years ago, the message from customers seemed clear: They wanted more power. So the more potent 2.4 liter engine, also used by the sporty Scion tC coupe, seemed like the right call.
Now, Mr. Haag says some Scion enthusiasts who liked the old xB for its quirky Japan home market styling and high mileage ratings might not like the new car. But he argues those numbers will be small. Scion, he adds, doesn't promote mileage. It promotes a brand -- aiming its marketing efforts at "urban trendsetters" who make up 10% of the 142 million Americans age 35 and under. ...
Toyota hasn't released pricing for the xD yet, but it's likely to be less than the xB -- the new version of Scion's de facto core model goes for $16,660, Scion says, about $1,700 more than the previous model. Kelley Blue Book says consumers are really paying $17,180.
Though a modest price increase at first glance, nearly $2,000 could alienate Scion's loyal hipster-base that's used to paying around $15,000 and then deciding whether to shell out another $1,000 on upgrades or other customizations.
"You're well over [$17,000] to get a base version. That doesn't sound cheap to me anymore," says Karl Brauer, editor-in-chief of Edmunds.com, a popular car-shopping Web site.
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Wasn't the 2006 on the old EPA ratings system and the 2008 on the new EPA rating system.
Effectively meaning that they new xB's economy would be nearly as good as the old xB if it were to be considered with the new ratings?
Or am I mistaken?
Effectively meaning that they new xB's economy would be nearly as good as the old xB if it were to be considered with the new ratings?
Or am I mistaken?
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Keep in mind, too, that Toyota's current world market bB/Materia is available in both left and right hand drive versions, AND has full side airbags as well as other new features in the same package size as the original...
See https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176181
Tom
See https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176181
Tom
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Honestly, why do we have to keep having first gen vs second gen threads?
I test drove an xB after Scion first launched it here in the US and that test drive was enough to make me decide not to purchase the vehicle. Toyota/Scion addressed every single issue I had with the original xB when they released the 08. That's why I signed to paperwork and put down a deposit last weekend.
The mileage issue is overblown and doesn't hold up after you factor in the new EPA standard. In fact, if you added more weight to the first gen xB and measured its mileage against the new EPA standard it would probably get worse gas mileage than the second gen ... it would certainly have nowhere near the performance.
As for this statement:
"You're well over [$17,000] to get a base version. That doesn't sound cheap to me anymore," says Karl Brauer, editor-in-chief of Edmunds.com, a popular car-shopping Web site.
What the heck is Mr. Brauer smoking? Whatever it is, I want some. It apparently does a fantastic job of cutting off the brain from reality. Have you seen what "base" vehicles look like from other manufacturers? Sorry, I like air conditioning, cruise control, power windows and an iPod connector standard. If you purchase a similar vehicle to the new xB (like a Honda Element) and add all the extras to the Honda base model in order to have the same features as the Scion "base" you end up with a vehicle that is more than $5000 more expensive than the 08 xB.
And who the heck compares the 08 xB to the Honda Fit?!? The Fit is a challenger to the xA and the new xD. In order to have anything even close to the same amount of cargo space in the Fit as you have in the back of the 08 xB with the seats folded down you have to fold down the back seats AND the front passenger seat in the Fit. It's nowhere near as practical for a family.
And while we're talking about comparing the xB to other vehicles ... let's talk about the Chevy HHR. The Chevy HHR? Yes, I want to buy from a US auto maker who has more recalls than an election in Florida. The last GM vehicle I had BURST INTO FLAMES while parked in my driveway (electrical problem). I'm pretty sure if you look at the track records for GM and Ford compared to Toyota and Honda, you'd find that far fewer Toyotas and Hondas spontaneously ignite.
Bottom line, I'll take the 08 xB.
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I think the XB2 is right on. The gas milage is far superior to most cars while still proving plenty of power at a very excellent price.
Prius gets great gas milage but at a premium price. So if your goal is saving money, the XB2 over a PRIUS or other hybrid.
Prius gets great gas milage but at a premium price. So if your goal is saving money, the XB2 over a PRIUS or other hybrid.
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I think new xB2 is stll a good package for $17000 plus. However, it would been nicer if it was a bit smaller with 1.5 lietr or 1.6 or even 1.8 liter engine with air bags. Perhaps as Tom indicated, this Materia can fill that gap but there is xD (darn).
May be the timing is off from Toyota that bigger and less efficient vehicle days are over now. Look at Tundra, I saw an ad that is offering rebates on new Tundras, already.
I am glad I got my classic xB and my wife may want that possible yellow release series xB2.
John
May be the timing is off from Toyota that bigger and less efficient vehicle days are over now. Look at Tundra, I saw an ad that is offering rebates on new Tundras, already.
I am glad I got my classic xB and my wife may want that possible yellow release series xB2.
John
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Originally Posted by YourNameHere
aaah...what could (should) have been.maybe of they brought that over i wouldnt have gone out and got a GTI on monday
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Why do we have to keep having 1st vs 2nd-gen threads? Because Toyota didn't call it the Scion xE (which they should have, IMHO). Better get used to it.
It's awfully cheesy of them to use 2006 EPA figures to compare with the 2008 EPA figures for the xB2, though, innit?
Fact is, the xB2 is a good car, but by calling it "xB," Toyota invited comparisons with the original xB. For a lot of xB1 owners, those comparisons aren't going to be favorable.
It's awfully cheesy of them to use 2006 EPA figures to compare with the 2008 EPA figures for the xB2, though, innit?
Fact is, the xB2 is a good car, but by calling it "xB," Toyota invited comparisons with the original xB. For a lot of xB1 owners, those comparisons aren't going to be favorable.
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I have seen folks reporting 23 mpg for the xB2 in around town driving. Granted these are new cars with few miles, but no amount of break-in will net the 27 mph or more you can get in an xB. The old EPA VS new EPA rant does not wash, since even if you adjust the 06 numbers you are still several MPG up on the xB2.
Both are great cars, but the xB2 style leaves me cold. I envy the extra power and side air bags, but pitty the looks and poor MPG (real world) - not too mention the $1,700 extra you have to pay.
I got my xB for the style and because I got it cheap (see the "who paid the least" thread).
The timing for Scion is bad - gas prices going up and your new model gets about the same as an Accord. I feel bad to the young buyers too (that is who I see when at a Scion store) with the higher prices. The old price was pretty sweet for all you got, the new price is still sweet for all you get now - but may be too much for someone trying to buy his or her first new car.
Dennis
Both are great cars, but the xB2 style leaves me cold. I envy the extra power and side air bags, but pitty the looks and poor MPG (real world) - not too mention the $1,700 extra you have to pay.
I got my xB for the style and because I got it cheap (see the "who paid the least" thread).
The timing for Scion is bad - gas prices going up and your new model gets about the same as an Accord. I feel bad to the young buyers too (that is who I see when at a Scion store) with the higher prices. The old price was pretty sweet for all you got, the new price is still sweet for all you get now - but may be too much for someone trying to buy his or her first new car.
Dennis
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If the new vehicle is an xB (and Scion says it is) then this is no different than comparing ANY vehicle, one year to the next. First time I did that was in comparing the '57 to the '58 Chevy, which was massive compared to the svelt '57.
Every time a new version OF THE SAME MODEL comes out there will be constant comparisons. Sometimes the new will come out on thop, sometimes not.
If Scion had simply called the new model something else, ANYTHING else, there would be no problem, except for some folks legitimately feeling sad for the demise of the xB.
Now, however, the two totally different vehicles are inextricably tied together by being called the same thing. It's like Ford Falcon owners waking up one morning and finding Ford had started calling the Fairmont a Falcon.
We all have to live with it, like it or not.
Tom
Every time a new version OF THE SAME MODEL comes out there will be constant comparisons. Sometimes the new will come out on thop, sometimes not.
If Scion had simply called the new model something else, ANYTHING else, there would be no problem, except for some folks legitimately feeling sad for the demise of the xB.
Now, however, the two totally different vehicles are inextricably tied together by being called the same thing. It's like Ford Falcon owners waking up one morning and finding Ford had started calling the Fairmont a Falcon.
We all have to live with it, like it or not.
Tom
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Regardless of the drop in gas mileage, the new xBs are selling like hotcakes, you have to get in line right now. This current tank I'm averaging about 27.5 mpg mixed highway/city and driving much faster than I did in my Gen1.
Never ceases to amaze me that people are still appalled about it carrying the same name. Talk about crying over spilled milk. For the record, the new xB is a LOT like the old xB. It's not a car, it's not an SUV, it's boxy, it gets good gas mileage, it's roomy, it's a Toyota, it's inexpensive, lots of storage compartments, etc. I own both cars still and the new one IS an xB. There are people starving, murders happening on a daily basis, dictatorships, nukes being developed, terrorists killing the innocent... and some of the people here have nothing better to do than whine like little babies because Toyota decided to listen to their customers to make the xB better than before? I guess that's why Porsche's 911 still looks the way it does and old 911 squawkers still complain each time they change things.[/code]
Never ceases to amaze me that people are still appalled about it carrying the same name. Talk about crying over spilled milk. For the record, the new xB is a LOT like the old xB. It's not a car, it's not an SUV, it's boxy, it gets good gas mileage, it's roomy, it's a Toyota, it's inexpensive, lots of storage compartments, etc. I own both cars still and the new one IS an xB. There are people starving, murders happening on a daily basis, dictatorships, nukes being developed, terrorists killing the innocent... and some of the people here have nothing better to do than whine like little babies because Toyota decided to listen to their customers to make the xB better than before? I guess that's why Porsche's 911 still looks the way it does and old 911 squawkers still complain each time they change things.[/code]
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I have no problems with the xB2. It is a fine car. I just am wondering why Toyota is going bigger on the new cars. It is kind of a GM sort of move in my opinion. They could have had a small car with more power--just look at the Mini. Anyway--nobody is forcing anyone to buy the new or get rid of their old--no harm no foul.........
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1st gen to day max!!! Seriously, i took up a second job making an extra $1000 a month, and i still cant afford the new xb, if you filter in the price of gas now, and what it will be in the next 5 years. Maintenance, and the monthly payments, and insurance all come out to about $500 a month for the new xb. I pay only $300 a month on my 1st gen xb with everything else. Gas is $3.50 a gallon over here and it hasn't gone down since i've been here for the last 5 years.....So i think Scion made a bad move to go with a bigger is better car, but they can do what they want, and now my car is a classic. Yay! I hope i don't get into a wreck....
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Just so we are clear where I stand, I am working on getting a 2008 xB because they are exactly what I want and need. I am in the group that the original xB, while cool and a good car, did not meet my needs and after careful consideration of an 05 xB I bought a 2005 Mazda3 instead.
As the owner of 9 different Toyota products over the years, I find the "Oh Toyota is going GM because they are making the xB bigger than the previous version" comments funny.
Let's look at history. Unless I missed one, every car Toyota has sold in the US has grown in size (and added power I believe) over the years.
My wife had a 2nd Gen RAV4 (still one of her favorite cars ever). The 2007 RAV4 is HUGE compared to the 1st and 2nd gen.
We had a gen1 Avalon (1995) and I promise you the current Avalon is much larger.
This is not a recent development. In the course of continuing to grow as a company, while Ford, GM and Chysler continued their self-destruction, Toyota has always done this.
A fine example is the Toyota Corolla. Here is a good link to information on a car Toyota first brought to the US in 1968.
http://www.answers.com/topic/toyota-corolla
I like this example because we had a 1988 Corolla that my niece is still driving.
If you look at our old Corolla compared to the current base Corolla you can see my point.
1988 Corolla(6th gen)
Engines 1.6 liter , 102hp
Length (170.3 in.)
Width (65.2 in.)
Height (52.4 in.)
Curb weight (2390 lbs)
2007Corolla(10th gen)
Engine 1.8 litre 126hp
Length (178.3 in)
Width (66.9 in)
Height (58.5 in)
Curb weight 2550 lbs
Want more? How about base Camrys since there is a connection to the new xB?
1987 Camry (2nd gen)
Engine 1.8 L
Length 182.1 in
Width 66.5 in
Height 54.1 in
Curb weight 2354
2007 Camry (6th gen)
Engine 2.4 L
Length 189.2 in
Width 71.7 in
Height 58.2 in
Curb weight 3263
Bottom line is that if there is a Toyota model that has not grown in size (and power) over the years I have not found it yet.
As the owner of 9 different Toyota products over the years, I find the "Oh Toyota is going GM because they are making the xB bigger than the previous version" comments funny.
Let's look at history. Unless I missed one, every car Toyota has sold in the US has grown in size (and added power I believe) over the years.
My wife had a 2nd Gen RAV4 (still one of her favorite cars ever). The 2007 RAV4 is HUGE compared to the 1st and 2nd gen.
We had a gen1 Avalon (1995) and I promise you the current Avalon is much larger.
This is not a recent development. In the course of continuing to grow as a company, while Ford, GM and Chysler continued their self-destruction, Toyota has always done this.
A fine example is the Toyota Corolla. Here is a good link to information on a car Toyota first brought to the US in 1968.
http://www.answers.com/topic/toyota-corolla
I like this example because we had a 1988 Corolla that my niece is still driving.
If you look at our old Corolla compared to the current base Corolla you can see my point.
1988 Corolla(6th gen)
Engines 1.6 liter , 102hp
Length (170.3 in.)
Width (65.2 in.)
Height (52.4 in.)
Curb weight (2390 lbs)
2007Corolla(10th gen)
Engine 1.8 litre 126hp
Length (178.3 in)
Width (66.9 in)
Height (58.5 in)
Curb weight 2550 lbs
Want more? How about base Camrys since there is a connection to the new xB?
1987 Camry (2nd gen)
Engine 1.8 L
Length 182.1 in
Width 66.5 in
Height 54.1 in
Curb weight 2354
2007 Camry (6th gen)
Engine 2.4 L
Length 189.2 in
Width 71.7 in
Height 58.2 in
Curb weight 3263
Bottom line is that if there is a Toyota model that has not grown in size (and power) over the years I have not found it yet.
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As I've said elsewhere and in agreement with Tomas, they should have called it something else so as not to cause all of this comparison. I suggested since it has a boxy profile but a tC engine, call it the "xTc" (as in extacy.) I ran out and bought a third one as soon as I saw the new one at the NY Car Show. The styling and size did not appeal to me- - a personal choice.
See: http://www.clubxb.com/forums/f2/1012...category-3-xb/ (Three Gen1 Owners)
I am wondering if in general, Toyota is losing its insight into the market pulse a bit in spite of their becoiming the #1 manufacturer. Yaris is not selling well (at least not in the area robably due to its similar size to teh Scion line) and although the new Gen2 xB responded at the time to what the young Gen1 xB owners wanted, it may become a bit of a dinosaur along with all the American made SUVs in stock all over the country.
I plan, just out of curiosity, to test drive one today. We'll see.
See: http://www.clubxb.com/forums/f2/1012...category-3-xb/ (Three Gen1 Owners)
I am wondering if in general, Toyota is losing its insight into the market pulse a bit in spite of their becoiming the #1 manufacturer. Yaris is not selling well (at least not in the area robably due to its similar size to teh Scion line) and although the new Gen2 xB responded at the time to what the young Gen1 xB owners wanted, it may become a bit of a dinosaur along with all the American made SUVs in stock all over the country.
I plan, just out of curiosity, to test drive one today. We'll see.