U.S. CarMakers Try to Repeat Green Halo Of Prius
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
SL Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 264
From: Arlington, Virginia USA
U.S. CarMakers Try to Repeat Green Halo Of Prius
Bon
Allscion -- an e-commerce website with news and accessories for your Scions
http://www.allscion.com/store
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world...s-hybrids.html
Allscion -- an e-commerce website with news and accessories for your Scions
http://www.allscion.com/store
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world...s-hybrids.html
DETROIT (Reuters) - When Tom Weatherbee swapped his minivan for a Toyota Prius hybrid two years ago, he was mostly hoping to save money at the gas pump.
But he was pleasantly surprised by both the requests from friends for a test drive and the grins its aerodynamic profile drew at the grocery store, and he basked in the attention.
"Even the people who own more expensive cars acknowledge the Prius as being pretty cool," said Weatherbee, 51, an electrical engineer who lives outside Traverse City, Michigan.
That, in a nutshell, is the challenge for Toyota Motor Co as it looks to build on the success of the Prius, the leading hybrid vehicle in the United states, and for rivals such as Honda Motor Co and General Motors Corp, which are seeking a share of the projected boom in greener cars.
Even with U.S. gas prices over $3 a gallon, up 50 percent in three years, marketing experts say U.S. buyers want hybrids that not only reduce fuel consumption and emissions but also make a statement about the driver's commitment to the environment.
The result is one of the biggest challenges to the U.S. auto industry since Detroit figured out how to market the hulking, gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles that dominated the market in the 1990s.
Toyota's Prius, with a list price of $21,100 and fuel consumption of 45 miles per gallon, commanded 51 percent of the U.S. hybrid market in 2007. Now the No. 1 Japanese automaker is considering extending the Prius line-up -- effectively making it a brand on its own.
But he was pleasantly surprised by both the requests from friends for a test drive and the grins its aerodynamic profile drew at the grocery store, and he basked in the attention.
"Even the people who own more expensive cars acknowledge the Prius as being pretty cool," said Weatherbee, 51, an electrical engineer who lives outside Traverse City, Michigan.
That, in a nutshell, is the challenge for Toyota Motor Co as it looks to build on the success of the Prius, the leading hybrid vehicle in the United states, and for rivals such as Honda Motor Co and General Motors Corp, which are seeking a share of the projected boom in greener cars.
Even with U.S. gas prices over $3 a gallon, up 50 percent in three years, marketing experts say U.S. buyers want hybrids that not only reduce fuel consumption and emissions but also make a statement about the driver's commitment to the environment.
The result is one of the biggest challenges to the U.S. auto industry since Detroit figured out how to market the hulking, gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles that dominated the market in the 1990s.
Toyota's Prius, with a list price of $21,100 and fuel consumption of 45 miles per gallon, commanded 51 percent of the U.S. hybrid market in 2007. Now the No. 1 Japanese automaker is considering extending the Prius line-up -- effectively making it a brand on its own.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
From: GP-DFW
Battery technology is starting to catch up. Lithium batteries weigh half as much and produce twice the charge as the current nickel variety. Once you introduce mass production, i.e toyota/lexus having 6 hybrid cars with more to come, then the costs will also start to come down. It's just like A/C and automatic transmissions. The costs used to be much higher to have either one of those on your car. Now all cars here come with AC and a manual tranny costs almost as much as the auto.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 209
From: PNW
Hybrids are the bridge between a hydrocarbon-based society and the 'future'. If you hadn't noticed, diesel costs more than gasoline, and biodiesel only has so much capacity available. It's relatively easy for a country like Brasil to switch over to biodiesel, but not so much the #1 consumer of oil, the United States. We consume 1/4 of all the oil that is sucked out of the ground. No one in the world has enough land to produce the amount of corn/soybean/switchgrass without having to convert native forests or biodiverse ecosystems over to single-crop, and even at that, biodiesel increases the consumption of natural resources (such as water), and contributes to the rising cost of food. It's still a net-negative impact.
We can use our vast reserves of coal, or we can even extract oil from the oil sands of Canada. However we don't have very strong regulations over safety, pollution or an institutionalized method for carbon trading. Let me know when we've reached that point where extracting from the oil sands or converting coal results in a zero-sum game.
Until all those things are resolved, I think hybrids are an excellent bridge to the 'future', whether that 'future' is hydrogen-based or a mixture of solar, wind, wave, etc. Or maybe continued hydrocarbon use?
We can use our vast reserves of coal, or we can even extract oil from the oil sands of Canada. However we don't have very strong regulations over safety, pollution or an institutionalized method for carbon trading. Let me know when we've reached that point where extracting from the oil sands or converting coal results in a zero-sum game.
Until all those things are resolved, I think hybrids are an excellent bridge to the 'future', whether that 'future' is hydrogen-based or a mixture of solar, wind, wave, etc. Or maybe continued hydrocarbon use?
Originally Posted by Zman
Hybrid is not the future, it increases costs and weight.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,627
From: North Los Angeles County
Originally Posted by Zman
Originally Posted by 808-213-503
And that's why Scion should switch to 100% hybrid.
Now that the industry has their feet wet, they can start trading the old mechanical systems for electrical systems. Hub motors and pure electric drive will replace the transmission, axles, and brakes and the engine size and weight will decrease as more faith is placed in the electric drivetrain to supply the high-power bursts required for acceleration.
At that point the hybrid will have truly arrived. It will be simpler than a conventional car, not more complex. It will probably be a bit heavier, as batteries aren't evolving as quickly as the other electronics, but cars really haven't been getting lighter these days anyway. I'd accept a few hundred pounds to have the ability to drive the first 10 or 15 miles on electric alone.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,726
Like 808 said... the hybrid was always just an interim type of vehicle. I appreciated the Prius and the handful of hybrid models when they first came out but now that I hear 100% of the Lexus lineup will include hybrid variants as well as dedicated Lexus hybrids I'm starting to fear that Toyota will dig in with hybrids.
As far as I'm concerned, on the green front, Honda is leading with , as of now, the most normal looking fuel cell car. Fuel cell is a better future.
Still, I'm really sad that we're running out of hydrocarbons. In the future, it seems like "tuning" will be more of a matter of optimizing electronics than about adjusting air/fuel ratios.
As far as I'm concerned, on the green front, Honda is leading with , as of now, the most normal looking fuel cell car. Fuel cell is a better future.
Still, I'm really sad that we're running out of hydrocarbons. In the future, it seems like "tuning" will be more of a matter of optimizing electronics than about adjusting air/fuel ratios.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,627
From: North Los Angeles County
Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
Still, I'm really sad that we're running out of hydrocarbons. In the future, it seems like "tuning" will be more of a matter of optimizing electronics than about adjusting air/fuel ratios.
Do a Google on "Prius Hacks" and you'll see that it can be done. The good one is bypassing the torque limiter to allow full torque to go to the wheels at stall. Electric burnouts, anyone?
Senior Member
Team ScionEyed
SL Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,880
From: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted by 808-213-503
And that's why Scion should switch to 100% hybrid.
no this is why scion should've stuck with the awesome 1st gen xB with the 1.5L instead of droppin the 2.4L into the 2nd gen xB.
Member
SL Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
From: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted by Cabroncito
and a manual tranny costs almost as much as the auto.
Now as far as hybrid is concerned, I'm all for it. If I ever need to replace the engine in my box, I'm thinking about bio-diesel, electric, or some other gasoline alternative.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 15
From: LA, California
Hybrid technology is just a placeholder and an attempt for the car manufacturers to please the governement and meet their strict EPA numbers. While they get significantly better gas mileage than non hybrid vehicles (of the same type), right now diesel engines are burning cleaner than ever and they're achieving 60+ MPG's. Oh and they cost a lot less.
Im sure the future is going to have many different ways for us to power our vehicles ie: Hydrogen/Electric, Gas/Electric, Diesel/Electric, and my favorite of all Compressed Air.
Right now i dont care because im getting 38MPG with my XA and it costs nearly 10G's less than a prius. In a lot of cases theres no point in buying a hybrid unless you're worried about the environment because... the amount of money you're saving in gas may not outweigh the cost of the "hyrbid". I know that doesnt apply to everyone driving one but someone who drives 10k a year is most likely not seeing any type of cost savings one bit.
Im sure the future is going to have many different ways for us to power our vehicles ie: Hydrogen/Electric, Gas/Electric, Diesel/Electric, and my favorite of all Compressed Air.
Right now i dont care because im getting 38MPG with my XA and it costs nearly 10G's less than a prius. In a lot of cases theres no point in buying a hybrid unless you're worried about the environment because... the amount of money you're saving in gas may not outweigh the cost of the "hyrbid". I know that doesnt apply to everyone driving one but someone who drives 10k a year is most likely not seeing any type of cost savings one bit.
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
MN Scions
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 498
From: Hastings, MN
Going green is nothing but a scam and a money grab. CO2 is NOT a pollutant. If you want a hybrid, cool. You are wasting your money though. The number one reason why people buy a prius isn't gas milage, it is to show people they love mother earth. Man made "climate change" is a myth. Also so is peak oil.
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,267
From: DubV
Originally Posted by javastan
Going green is nothing but a scam and a money grab. CO2 is NOT a pollutant. If you want a hybrid, cool. You are wasting your money though. The number one reason why people buy a prius isn't gas milage, it is to show people they love mother earth. Man made "climate change" is a myth. Also so is peak oil.
How many years do you think we can keep up with that?
With gas prices around $3.70 here, a Prius doesn't sound like such a bad deal considering that I've seen people plop down 25 grand for an HHR or something.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
BlingSlade
Scion iA Discussion Lounge
6
Oct 19, 2016 12:39 AM