Gas-frugal Scions are better buy than hybrids
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Gas-frugal Scions are better buy than hybrids
I'd still rather have my xB than a hybrid.
Paul
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Paul
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But there are cars on the market that cost a lot less than even the cheapest hybrids yet get fuel economy that is double that of most SUVs and, in some cases, is close to what some hybrids achieve. ...
Scion xA: The xA was one of the first two vehicles Toyota released under the Scion name when the youth sub-brand made its debut in 2004, and the car continues in the expanded lineup for 2006. It is built on the chassis of the Toyota Echo subcompact, which has been discontinued for 2006. The car is economical to buy and operate, thanks to a starting price under $13,500 and EPA fuel-economy ratings of 32 mpg city/37 highway with manual transmission or 31/38 for automatics.
Scion xB: For those who need an SUV but with great fuel economy and a decent price, the Scion xB is a good choice. It looks a lot like the Honda Element, which came out two years ago about the same time the xB was being introduced only in California. But the xB is much cooler-looking and a nicer vehicle overall. The xB is EPA-rated at 30 mpg city and 34 highway. And you can buy one starting at about $15,000, with a fully loaded model running under $19,000.
Scion xA: The xA was one of the first two vehicles Toyota released under the Scion name when the youth sub-brand made its debut in 2004, and the car continues in the expanded lineup for 2006. It is built on the chassis of the Toyota Echo subcompact, which has been discontinued for 2006. The car is economical to buy and operate, thanks to a starting price under $13,500 and EPA fuel-economy ratings of 32 mpg city/37 highway with manual transmission or 31/38 for automatics.
Scion xB: For those who need an SUV but with great fuel economy and a decent price, the Scion xB is a good choice. It looks a lot like the Honda Element, which came out two years ago about the same time the xB was being introduced only in California. But the xB is much cooler-looking and a nicer vehicle overall. The xB is EPA-rated at 30 mpg city and 34 highway. And you can buy one starting at about $15,000, with a fully loaded model running under $19,000.
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The xB is NOT an SUV! It's a wagon. How many times does that need make known?
I would love if they threw that in there; functionality of an SUV with the economy of the family wagon
I would rather stick with my xA than get a hybrid. At least with a soley combustible fuel source I will get consistent readings in my MPG/tank. It also has more power than the hybrid compacts.
I'm curious if anyone knows what you would actually get for readings if you took a hybrid out on a road trip say from SoCal to NorCal and check if the xA is really that far off on the highway.
I would love if they threw that in there; functionality of an SUV with the economy of the family wagon
I would rather stick with my xA than get a hybrid. At least with a soley combustible fuel source I will get consistent readings in my MPG/tank. It also has more power than the hybrid compacts.
I'm curious if anyone knows what you would actually get for readings if you took a hybrid out on a road trip say from SoCal to NorCal and check if the xA is really that far off on the highway.
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lalagimp, the Prius is the smallest hybird total makes and it has 295 pounds or torque, and youve got 105.... While I agree that xA is a better economy buy than a Prius, I'd drag race a Prius vs. a xA any day of the week.
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I think I had the Civic in mind when I made that statement- I saw something around 89 HP last time I looked up the hybrid vehicles.
Just where do you come up with the comparable torque numbers? - Edmunds shows them (Prius/Scion-Toyotas)neck and neck as well as horsepower.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyo...nav..8.Toyota*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/scio...enav..8.Scion*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/hond...tor..3.Toyota*
I'd rather pocket the $7000+
Just where do you come up with the comparable torque numbers? - Edmunds shows them (Prius/Scion-Toyotas)neck and neck as well as horsepower.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyo...nav..8.Toyota*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/scio...enav..8.Scion*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/hond...tor..3.Toyota*
I'd rather pocket the $7000+
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Toyota and Honda's hybrids main advantage is PZEV or partial zero emissions vehicle status. This sort of status is far more important than MPG. You can get a lot of MPG from a diesel but the emissions that comes out of the diesel hurts the environment more. Of note, the xB is only rated as LEV. After LEV, there is ULEV, SULEV, SULEVII, then I think PZEV. 
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Originally Posted by lalagimp
I think I had the Civic in mind when I made that statement- I saw something around 89 HP last time I looked up the hybrid vehicles.
Just where do you come up with the comparable torque numbers? - Edmunds shows them (Prius/Scion-Toyotas)neck and neck as well as horsepower.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyo...nav..8.Toyota*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/scio...enav..8.Scion*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/hond...tor..3.Toyota*
I'd rather pocket the $7000+
Just where do you come up with the comparable torque numbers? - Edmunds shows them (Prius/Scion-Toyotas)neck and neck as well as horsepower.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyo...nav..8.Toyota*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/scio...enav..8.Scion*
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/hond...tor..3.Toyota*
I'd rather pocket the $7000+
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Originally Posted by KingofScion
While I agree that xA is a better economy buy than a Prius, I'd drag race a Prius vs. a xA any day of the week.
xA 0-60: 8.40
I'll take that bet. (The prius is not geared to take advantage of all that torque).
Although, the Honda Insight can can 0-60 in 11.2 in sport mode, and 13.2 in drive mode. Knocking two seconds off at the touch of a button is pretty slick.
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From what I've been able to research, the Prius has the same motor as the Scions...except that the intake valves stay open LONGER on the prius(Adkinson motor) to help with the higher MPG. It causes a severe power loss, but the electric motor makes up for the loss. I hear a few people saying to drop a Prius motor in an xB. but from what I can see, they are the same, other than the ECU and cams...please correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to know the differences too.
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Originally Posted by mfbenson
Originally Posted by KingofScion
While I agree that xA is a better economy buy than a Prius, I'd drag race a Prius vs. a xA any day of the week.
xA 0-60: 8.40
I'll take that bet. (The prius is not geared to take advantage of all that torque).
Although, the Honda Insight can can 0-60 in 11.2 in sport mode, and 13.2 in drive mode. Knocking two seconds off at the touch of a button is pretty slick.
Like the Lexus 400h, it has a V6 and its stronger and faster then a V8.
Performance whether we like it or not is going the way of hybrids. With the planetary gear system, you don't have a 'horsepower/tourqe' curve, all the power is at the wheels as you are pressing the gas pedal. So basically, instead of waiting till 5k to hit the powerband, you just have it at anypoint you want. And there is no transmission so you won't have to worry about shifting correctly.
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10 years ago lots of cars got mid 30's.. then they started disappearing.. and replaced with hybrids.. but what's funny is that those older cars did it without all that expensive technology AND were LEV (low emission vehicles).. to me it's more marketing trying to be forced into hybrids if you want the fuel economy, when regular engines did it just fine.. I'm not against progress, but I'd expect MUCH better than what we had 10 years ago.. to me it's just marketing..
i am glad that there are xA's and xB's out there that get great mileage without all those "extras"..
i am glad that there are xA's and xB's out there that get great mileage without all those "extras"..
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Hybrids do have its advantages but since the technology is fairly new and isn't will wide accepted by most which in time it will be. I still prefer combustion engines but hybrids just provide a enviromentally friendly option. Car manufacturers also get a nice incentive by the government to produce and develope vehicles that use alternative methods of power.
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the 295 lb ft of torque for the prius is really misleading. the prius's electric motor (like all electric motors) produces a huge amount of torque at very very low rpms. once it gets into the rpm band that cars typically use, the torque gains from adding the electric motor fall pretty fast. the 0-60 times prove it, an xA would smoke a prius easily.
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Originally Posted by blastedat9
the 295 lb ft of torque for the prius is really misleading. the prius's electric motor (like all electric motors) produces a huge amount of torque at very very low rpms. once it gets into the rpm band that cars typically use, the torque gains from adding the electric motor fall pretty fast. the 0-60 times prove it, an xA would smoke a prius easily.
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Originally Posted by Keitaro
Toyota and Honda's hybrids main advantage is PZEV or partial zero emissions vehicle status. This sort of status is far more important than MPG. You can get a lot of MPG from a diesel but the emissions that comes out of the diesel hurts the environment more. Of note, the xB is only rated as LEV. After LEV, there is ULEV, SULEV, SULEVII, then I think PZEV.
The alphabet soup is just a way for the smog czars to justify their existence. They keep coming up with new ratings, but the bare fact is that half of a negligible number is still negligible.
The "partial zero" rating is particularly silly, because it doesn't really mean what it says. VW has a PZEV Jetta that has a conventional gasoline engine, no hybrid drive at all.
Of course, here in California, folks with PZEV vehicles are eligible to put "eco-snob" stickers all over their cars so they can drive alone in the carpool lanes.
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Originally Posted by farberio
Originally Posted by mfbenson
Originally Posted by KingofScion
While I agree that xA is a better economy buy than a Prius, I'd drag race a Prius vs. a xA any day of the week.
xA 0-60: 8.40
I'll take that bet. (The prius is not geared to take advantage of all that torque).
Although, the Honda Insight can can 0-60 in 11.2 in sport mode, and 13.2 in drive mode. Knocking two seconds off at the touch of a button is pretty slick.
The Prius also has traction control, but unlike the Scions it cannot be turned off. There is a "hack" to turn it off, but that comes with a caution that the full torque of the electric motor without traction control might damage the drivetrain.
I know from experience that a Prius is as quick as an xB, at least up to 40MPH or so. I could probably beat it if I was willing to go to redline in each gear, but that's not what an xB is all about.
